But Steam Support still haven't told me why I'm banned, and as far as they are concerned I was just gifting a lot of games to friends, because I know that they haven't hacked my paypal ;)
Games cost little to nothing to press and distribute. Even less if digitally distributed. But they don't cost nothing to make. I'm all for the free flow of information, and games are fundamentally information. But good information doesn't just happen.
Also, pretty much all exercises in voluntary pricing have failed to indicate that they generate enough income to cover the costs of production. All you get are people who couldn't afford it at full price paying what they can, and those who could afford it at full price, paying a lot less.
Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
Flawed methodology in a biased environment leads to invalid results.Also, pretty much all exercises in voluntary pricing have failed to indicate that they generate enough income to cover the costs of production. All you get are people who couldn't afford it at full price paying what they can, and those who could afford it at full price, paying a lot less.
Last edited by Rii; 28-01-2012 at 05:17 PM.
And as to your second point: The world is not a laboratory. Society and consumer habits even less so. If the environment is biased, then you need to conduct experiments in that biased world.
I would love a world where things were not so biased and consumer habits were different. If you have any suggestions as to how to change that, I would gladly listen.
The discussion around HOW we create an environment that fosters creativity and good information production by renumerating (which does not necessitate financial renumeration) that production AND accepts that information can will and shoul pass freely is far, far more the interesting discussion to be having.
Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
More generally, when did this 'no gifting for money' thing start? I wasn't aware of it, we've had a 'data smuggling' thing going on in these forums and I seem to remember "buy a double pack and split the cost with a friend" was something Valve heavily marketed with Portal 2?
Note that that isn't actually part of the SSA, just a separate kb article. Also excessive gifting is not the problem - at least not according to Steam Support. In their one and only reply to me, they said excessive gifting was not why I was banned. It's why I want to know why i was banned, but there's no way they will tell me, which is why I was hoping RPS would ask - they know how to get answers...
But you make a good point - in the case of 4 packs, do they really expect one person to pay for all of them from the goodness of their heart? I don't think that's ever happened, and anyone buying 4 packs has had 3 people paying the buyer.
"I helped some friends get cheaper games from my region (Russia). Some paid me via paypal (Steam doesn't allow this) and some via pints/beer/other games."
Yeah, that's an ordinary predictable and expected ban.
Steam has to enforce region restrictions on games. You bypass it repeatedly you get banned.
Sometimes they pay different people based on the region purchased. Sometimes a different product goes to different regions, this might be because of a legal requirement for blood or whatever. Steam is licensed to sell particular products in particular regions for particular prices. Often whole regions are forbidden to buy the product at all.
If steam doesn't enforce the region restriction they are violating their contract with publisher.
Russia has drastically lower prices for many games on steam right now so there is newly a rush of people trying the same thing you did and getting banned. The temptation right now is pretty high. The problem is so bad that many publishers have withdrawn their product from Russia completely, including ID, bethesda, etc..
There's lot of threads on steam forum where they establish that the region restrictions are a serious contractual and legal issue for steam that they have to enforce, and the region restrictions aren't their choice it is a requirement put on them by the publisher contracts.
Here's another Russian banned for this kind of thing, and showing many people are interested and active in these trades.
Last edited by BenWah; 28-01-2012 at 07:06 PM.
BenWah: I saw a few people post screenshots of bans, but they were given warnings first. That way they knew what they were banned for. Also they were doing it blatantly, just selling games for profit. I was doing it strictly between friends - so as far as Steam knew, I was just gifting (which is absolutely allowed, to any region). In my opinion there are easier ways to enfore this - like taking away the ability to gift or trade, instead of outright banning an account with $1000+ games on it.
But the reason I made this thread is because they haven't told me that that's why I'm banned. I wonder if it's because they don't have any proof - I didn't post about it anywhere (before getting banned, anyway).
Edit to clarify: Steam Support have said before that gifting games to regions where they are unavailable to buy is allowed. But either way, that's not what I was doing.
Last edited by gimperial; 28-01-2012 at 07:18 PM.
Very bottom of the first post. They don't specifically say bypassing is allowed, but they do say gifting internationally is fine. If you want, contact Steam Support and ask if you're allowed to gift a game to your friend who is in a region where it's unavailable, they'll say yes (I've seen screenshots of that too but can't find them right now).
If they didn't want you to do it, they would jsut disable trading/gifting of games to a region where it's unavailable.
gimperial, just let me say that if you take this issue to a trial, you should win. If the TOS aren't clear enough, if there is proof that others have done this without being warned/banned... you should win and take lots of money from them.
Valve has NO proof (only your word, and that's... silly) that you sold those games you gifted, "overpriced". And if you did, it's your problem. Valve should have implemented REGION LOCKED trading.
All I want is for Valve to tell me why I'm banned. My guess is they have no proof.