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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post

    1) I know people will jump on me about it, but "If this was Origin, there'd be six hundred comments and blood in the streets by now."
    If this was Origin, there would be no need for this thread as EA's live chat support is actually helpful.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    But your case raises a more serious concern which I have been complaining about: publishers do not have legitimate reason to justify geo-price discrimination.
    Of course they do. It's called the 'cost of living'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimperial View Post
    By the way I never used proxies, I actually am in Russia. And I wasn't buying retail games that need Russian IP activation, I was buying games on Steam and gifting them. Most of the time for free.

    But really I just want Steam to improve their crappy support, and tell me WHY they banned me.

    squirrel: Steam Support doesn't have a phone number unfortunately, otherwise I'd be all over it.
    Not in Russia, it doesn't. However, what you're doing definitely sounds like something Steam would want to stop somebody from doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    Of course they do. It's called the 'cost of living'.
    This. Purchasing power of the average Chinese citizen, for instance, is far lower than the average American citizen, so pricing things the same makes little sense (and as such, for instance, a Big Mac costs a buck fifty less in China than America).
    Last edited by Nalano; 28-01-2012 at 05:59 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  4. #24
    Make a thread on the steam forums, that sometimes gets their attention.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    Of course they do. It's called the 'cost of living'.
    The usual practice is to charge similar amounts everywhere and stiff shit for those markets that can't afford it. That's how real products work, because they actually cost something to make. Differential pricing exists with games and films precisely because they are not real products and every sale - regardless of dollar amount - is 100% profit.

    Differential pricing is actually a good thing, as it enables a broader audience to enjoy the experience and demonstrates just how arbitrary and counter-productive the system of setting prices for games and unleashing the violence of law on those who can't or won't meet your demands actually is. After all, there are rich Russians and poor Americans: the only reason price differentiation exists across nations but not between individuals within nations according to a great number of criteria (not just income) is because the latter type is very difficult to do.

    And the solution to that problem, of course, is not to impose such differentiation from top-down at all, but rather allow it to grow from bottom-up: that is to say, let consumers differentiate themselves by voluntarily contributing to producers whatever amounts they can and are willing to.
    Last edited by Rii; 28-01-2012 at 07:18 PM.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    That's how real products work
    No, no they don't.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Not in Russia, it doesn't. However, what you're doing definitely sounds like something Steam would want to stop somebody from doing.
    I think my message got lost in the stuff about pricing, but I never denied that - in fact I accept that it's a bannable offense. But why can't Steam give a warning, or disable trading/gifting, or at the very least, TELL me that that's why they banned me? Instead of just banning and going silent. Plus if you read the OP, they actually said the ban wasn't due to excessive gifting, so it could have been something else that is a false positive. And it's not really Steam's business who I gift games to and whether they pay me with sexual favours or beer or not. But even so, I just want to know exactly why I'm banned.

    And they don't have phone support anywhere, even if you're in the US (or if they do it's very well hidden - I looked for ages).

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by asskicker View Post
    Make a thread on the steam forums, that sometimes gets their attention.
    They never help with account issues on the forums, but I did message BurtonJ who is a Valve employee, but he ignored me.
    Also someone's made a thread on my behalf: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2508426

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimperial View Post
    And it's not really Steam's business who I gift games to
    Sure it is, when you're circumventing price strictures.

    Quote Originally Posted by gimperial View Post
    And they don't have phone support anywhere, even if you're in the US (or if they do it's very well hidden - I looked for ages).
    t: 425-889-9642
    f: 425-827-4843

    That wasn't so hard.

    That said, there's ~300 Valve employees and ~20,000,000 Valve customers. You can have fast service or individualized service, just not both.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by gimperial View Post
    They never help with account issues on the forums, but I did message BurtonJ who is a Valve employee, but he ignored me.
    Also someone's made a thread on my behalf: http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2508426
    Well I've seen plenty of threads of people telling their story and eventually a Valve Employee will ask for their ticket number.
    But then, I've seen plenty of thread where people don't get help... :P

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    Two things:Can we infer from this that publishers ultimately have the larger say in how prices are set on Steam, thus the ridiculous case of "Steam price >= retail shop price" (as seen in Australia) is the fault of the publishers?
    I thought this was A Known Thing.

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Just to check... To the OP: You've never had your Steam account suspended before this? Perhaps a temporary ban that was lifted if you agreed to abide by the T&C's/SSA? Which you've now failed to do? Or lifted while they looked into the situation, and have now decided to ban?

    When you say you helped 'some friends' get cheaper games... just how many is some? How many games? How organised was it, exactly? How many games, bought at the Russian prices, have you traded with people not in Russia?

    Also, you weren't by any chance involved in abusing the Winter Sale and Coal collecting, were you?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Yes, they do. There are other factors but there is an underlying reality to physical property that serves as the baseline and which is usually the predominant factor in setting prices.

    Which is why McDonalds has different social cachet in different societies: the cost of the products is relatively fixed, but the income differential between societies makes one nation's junk food consumed disproportionately by the poor the other nation's delicacy consumed disproportionately by the rich.

    In IP land there would be as many McDonalds restaurants per square mile in South Sudan as in the United States. But there isn't because the vast majority of Sudanese can't afford McDonalds' products because meat (even McDonalds' "meat") is farking expensive.
    Last edited by Rii; 28-01-2012 at 06:19 PM.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    the cost of the products is relatively fixed
    I just linked you something that contradicts this very statement. You're replying to it at this very moment.

    Jesus H. Christ: Businesses charge what the market will bear. That's why Heineken is more expensive in the US than in the Netherlands - not because it's hard to import (American Heinekens are made in America) but because it's "imported." It'd be stupid to block out a whole market because they can't afford a price point that's slated towards a population with greater purchasing power, as all that matters is that you're making a profit.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  15. #35
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    Unaco:
    It was suspended during the Xmas sale. After 7 days, Steam Support replied saying they suspended to make sure it was me buying games for the account, because yes I was buying a lot of games for myself, and gifting a lot as well. They asked me to verify that it was indeed me buying them, I said yes it was, and they said they will make a note to make sure I don't get suspended in the future. Of course in my opinion, the note they actually made was "if he gifts again, ban him".

    I guess what you're asking is if this happened: http://i.imgur.com/ALt6b.png
    It didn't. T&Cs, SSA were never mentioned. As far as I was concerned, they made sure someone hadn't stolen my account and was gifting games away, and then they told me they'd make sure I wouldn't be suspended again.

    As for numbers, I'd estimate I gifted about 70 games. About 50 of them I gave away for free (stuff like Limbo for $0.5, I'd just buy like 10 copies and give them away). And maybe 20 or so games where people either paypalled me, or IOU'd beer, drinks etc.

    I was not involved with abusing the coal stuff in any way (in fact my account was suspended for half the sale - see above).

    And once again, trading gifts for money is a bannable offense, and I am ok with being banned for that. But they should SAY SO. But so far they said this ban was not for excessive gifting.

  16. #36
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimperial View Post
    As for numbers, I'd estimate I gifted about 70 games.
    That's a lotta 50 cent games.

    Also, this thread is getting hilarious: Because you werent specifically charged, you're committing perjury left and right.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Jesus H. Christ: Businesses charge what the market will bear.
    And when 'what the market will bear' translates to losing money on the sale because the population actually can't afford to pay what the product costs to produce, you don't sell a product there; or rather, you only sell to the relatively few rich folk around at or above the standard price.

    Or maybe it's just that Africans don't like cars (except for rich Africans for reasons unrelated to their richness) and that's why there aren't dealerships selling $2 Honda Civics there to all and sundry.

    Or maybe, just maybe, it's because Honda can't actually make a car that the average African can afford, because cars - not being intellectual property - actually cost money to make, and that restricts the possible market space.
    Last edited by Rii; 28-01-2012 at 07:16 PM.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    That's a lotta 50 cent games.
    It might even have been more, it's a rough estimate. But if you read the SPUF thread I linked, that's nothing money wise compared to the amount of gifting that goes on in that community. For example there's currently a $3000 worth of Steam games giveaway going on.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gimperial View Post
    It might even have been more, it's a rough estimate. But if you read the SPUF thread I linked, that's nothing money wise compared to the amount of gifting that goes on in that community. For example there's currently a $3000 worth of Steam games giveaway going on.
    Gifting in general isn't the problem. Gifting from Russia is, and "other people do it too" isn't exactly an excuse. :p
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Gifting in general isn't the problem. Gifting from Russia is, and "other people do it too" isn't exactly an excuse. :p
    That wasn't my excuse though, I've said several times that if I'm banned for gifting for money (which isn't allowed by Steam) I'm totally OK with that.
    But if gifting from Russia is a problem, why has Steam not disabled it? It's either OK, or it isn't. And if that is the problem, why can't they tell me that that's why I'm banned?

    They also specifically said there are no limits to how much you gift, from any region. The only thing that isn't allowed is gifting in exchange for money.

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