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  1. #81
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    Valve's version is optional. Origin's is not. That's the difference between spyware and opting into sharing data.

  2. #82
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    @Bhazor

    Completely agree, but your second link is a duplicate of your first. You were thinking of this, I think:

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011...pdate-edition/

  3. #83
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Walker View Post
    Valve's version is optional. Origin's is not. That's the difference between spyware and opting into sharing data.
    Wait, now I'm confused, what's optional about Steam for Valve games and Steamworks games?

  4. #84
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    @Bhazor

    Completely agree, but your second link is a duplicate of your first. You were thinking of this, I think:

    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011...pdate-edition/

    My bad. Fixed.

  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Wait, now I'm confused, what's optional about Steam for Valve games and Steamworks games?
    That's not what John is talking about. He's talking about the data sharing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    On the other hand, their power in the industry does lend itself to greater oversight, particularly when their MO seems to be to say nothing about anything to anybody.

    Did Valve ever bother to properly inform their users about that security breach of theirs?
    They send every single person an e-mail, isn't that enough?

  7. #87
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    That's not what John is talking about. He's talking about the data sharing.
    Then that's an odd reply, seeing as that's not what Bhazor was talking about at all.

  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asskicker View Post
    They send every single person an e-mail, isn't that enough?
    No, they didn't.

  9. #89
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Then that's an odd reply, seeing as that's not what Bhazor was talking about at all.
    Really? When he says...

    RPS went a bit gung ho when they read the Origin user agreement. Forgetting it was basically the same as what Valve have been doing for years.
    He wasn't talking about the differences/similarities between the Steam and Origin data mining? And then this...

    Sorry John but a lot of your rages at Origins and GFWL are about what Google and Valve have been doing for a decade (data mining, hardware scanning, signing away rights to sell your personal details). Maybe it's not bias but its certainly short sightedness.
    He's not talking about the optional nature of Steam's data mining/hardware/software surveys, and Origin's that you agree to when you install? What is Bhazor talking about then?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  10. #90
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    He's not talking about the optional nature of Steam's data mining/hardware/software surveys, and Origin's that you agree to when you install? What is Bhazor talking about then?
    Account bans, or didn't you read the provided links?

    I suppose i should have said "not central to his argument" rather than "not what he's talking about at all," though.

  11. #91
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Account bans, or didn't you read the provided links?
    That wasn't ALL he was talking about though... Or did you not read all of Bhazor's post?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  12. #92
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    That wasn't ALL he was talking about though... Or did you not read all of Bhazor's post?
    I already copped to that, can we stop drawing attention away from the central point now?

  13. #93
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    I'll settle this.
    This is what I meant.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011...more-sinister/

    Incredibly vicious article about a stipulation that has been in Steam's privacy policy for years. Basically Valve retains the rights to send out your details to any company they work with.

    My central point being that Valve get off lighter than EA for fuck-ups.
    Last edited by Bhazor; 29-01-2012 at 06:19 PM.

  14. #94
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    I'll settle this.
    This is what I meant.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011...more-sinister/

    Incredibly vicious article about a stipulation that has been in Steam's privacy policy for years. Basically Valve retains the rights to send out your details to any company they work with.
    That's the weaker of your two arguments (the account ban one is better) because the opposition will argue all the livelong day about optional surveys and how Steam would never ever actually use that clause because they're so "nice" and not like those other big mean companies at all.

    I know the language is the same, but it's still better to focus on what Valve's done rather than what they've reserved the right to do.

  15. #95
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    Incredibly vicious article about a stipulation that has been in Steam's privacy policy for years. Basically Valve retains the rights to send out your details to any company they work with.

    My central point being that Valve get off lighter than EA for fuck-ups.
    Yes, but you are missing what John said. And I said.

    Steam/Valve ASKS your permission before the Hardware survey. It's an opt in, separate to installing Steam. You can use Steam and avoid the survey and having your data sent to them.

    EA/Origin does not. When you install, you agree to it. You cannot use Origin without agreeing to this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  16. #96
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    Actually what I mean by their privacy policy extends to your personal details including but not limited to e-mail, home address, bank details, phone number and full name. All of which you sign away the rights to when you install steam. Same as Origin.

    Again. EA bad. Valve good.

    To go back to the OP I can verify that "Steam will ban you and not tell you why" and when it comes to this their customer service is terrible.

    For the record and to avoid claims of fanboyism I just want to add all client based download services from Steam to GFWL are welcome to kiss the darkest portion of my pasty white marshmallow ass unless you're selling with at least 75% off.

    Gamersgate and GoG 4 life yo.
    Last edited by Bhazor; 29-01-2012 at 06:40 PM.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexing Vision View Post
    I'm surprised that Steam didn't give a reason. I find that really hard to believe, to be honest - their customer service is not exemplary, but it has been pretty accurate for me and uses far less "canned responses" than I would have expected it to.
    I thought that was the customary MO of most internet services. When Yahoo banned my e-mail account years ago they didn't give me any reason despite my requests.

    My experience with Steam's customer service have been all over the place. Sometimes I get a super helpful representative who goes out of his way to help me and sometimes I get a robot who just regurgitates canned responses that are only tangentially applicable to my situation.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Walker View Post
    I'm sick of bullshit like this. We've questioned Valve a bunch, and are frequently critical. That they're less frequently and less egregiously evil than some others explains much of your invented discrepancy.
    Isn't there an issue though that Valve don't respond, whereas EA, etc. do, so they end up looking worse because of how news reporting and so on works?

    EA seem to do something bad, make a statement about it making them look worse, then make another statement trying to make them look slightly better, all of which gets reported (here and other places) at every single stage.

    Whereas Valve just do something bad, refuse to comment on it, so whoever the victim is has little verifiable evidence that news outlets can even use. So you either get nothing or just a single piece. I have a feeling Valve has refused to comment on stuff you've put to them enough times that that's almost news in itself...

  19. #99
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    I struggle to have much sympathy with the OP. In the space of a few posts we go from "I've done nothing wrong and had no communication" to "I've gifted 70 games from Russia for payment and Valve contacted me to clarify the situation and I didn't stop my actions". Yeh their communication and clarity is shit but you were playing with fire, did alarm bells not ring when they contacted you asking what the activity on your account entailed?

  20. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    I struggle to have much sympathy with the OP. In the space of a few posts we go from "I've done nothing wrong and had no communication" to "I've gifted 70 games from Russia for payment and Valve contacted me to clarify the situation and I didn't stop my actions". Yeh their communication and clarity is shit but you were playing with fire, did alarm bells not ring when they contacted you asking what the activity on your account entailed?
    Wow.

    Find me one post where I said I've done nothing wrong. I've been saying the exact opposite throughout this whole thread.

    I'm not seeking sympathy. I'm not even hoping to get my account back. In my first post I was clear what communication I'd had with Steam - 2 messages saying I violated the SSA, and nothing else. My second post said what I thought might be the reason for the banning. If you read carefully, most of the 70 games were given out for free. They contacted me in December to ask if it was someone else using my account - I said no. They said sorry, we'll make a note so that you're not suspended in the future. Gifting for money wasn't mentioned at all. You seem to think that I think I am innocent and haven't done anything wrong - I've said so many times in this thread that I know what I did is a bannable offence, but Steam hasn't said that that's why I'm banned, and it could be any other reason. What if they banned me because they suspect I'm using a VPN to pretend I'm in Russia? What if it's some other reason that isn't true? I want them to be clear about the reason.

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