Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 70
  1. #1
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,142

    Games whose purchase proceeds no longer go to the developers

    Some games whose proceeds no longer go to the developers are listed here:
    http://machinestudios.co.uk/viewentry.php?id=45

    I think this is worth discussing.
    (thanks to Mr Denby's twitter for this...)

    I buy games from GoG if they have put the work in to make these game compatible beyond bundling them with DosBox.

    I would LIKE to think that buying these games sends a message to publishers that there is still demand. but I'm not convinced. If From Dust is what we get for buying these games, then, well... In the abscence of the proceeds of a game going to their developers, and with no clear suggesting that a demand for them will change large publishers design choices I wonder:

    Why buy these games?
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  2. #2
    Obscure Node
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    28
    That's interesting indeed.


    Titan quest? Why? All of it goes to THQ alone now?

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,686
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    I would LIKE to think that buying these games sends a message to publishers that there is still demand. but I'm not convinced. If From Dust is what we get for buying these games, then, well...
    Well then it's a good thing. There's always room for cheap and unique games built on groundbreaking technology.

    For some of those games the earnings go to the franchise holders (Bond, LOTR, Warhammer etc). For the rest, just because the developer went tits up doesn't mean those dollars aren't invested in other cool games by the publisher.
    It seems a bit silly to me. Money from the purchase of Company of Heroes doesn't go to its designers because they left Relic. Where exactly do you draw the line in this argument - at the name of the studio, at the employees directly responsible for the game or what?

    When a game is stuck in a legal limbo and nobody knows where the money goes, that's when you might as well go ahead and pirate it IMO. However I can't think of anything in that situation except for System Shock 2 and Rise of Nations.

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Lagoon West, Vermilion Sands
    Posts
    4,490
    Unless your company is a going concern then there's never been a royalty stream in place (unlike say film & television). Half the reason GOG can go on about being DRM free is because ultimately there's not a massive list of developers getting a slice of the action. The money is made GoG with the publishers getting a slice. It's icing on the cake money for them, not life and death.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

    Probable Replicant

    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  5. #5
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Unless your company is a going concern then there's never been a royalty stream in place (unlike say film & television). Half the reason GOG can go on about being DRM free is because ultimately there's not a massive list of developers getting a slice of the action. The money is made GoG with the publishers getting a slice. It's icing on the cake money for them, not life and death.
    Yep, the publishers are able to make money on a game that's long since out of print, something that wouldn't happen with second hand sales.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    GMT-7
    Posts
    3,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
    Yep, the publishers are able to make money on a game that's long since out of print, something that wouldn't happen with second hand sales.
    Have you seen the prices of some classic PC games? I'm anxiously waiting for them to get Severance up there.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Terra Australis Incognita
    Posts
    4,525
    So... for the most part, this list just reads like a list of defunct game developers.

    People didn't really think that when they purchased a game from GoG or Steam that it was feeding money back into the original developer, now defunct, did they?

  8. #8
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Have you seen the prices of some classic PC games? I'm anxiously waiting for them to get Severance up there.

    Yep, they're absolutely fucking ridiculous.

    Wasn't Severance the game where you could cut off an enemies arm and beat them to death with it?

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    GMT-7
    Posts
    3,444
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacques View Post
    Yep, they're absolutely fucking ridiculous.

    Wasn't Severance the game where you could cut off an enemies arm and beat them to death with it?
    I wouldn't know, I've never played it. What I've seen looks a lot like Demon's Souls.

  10. #10
    Activated Node
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    81
    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    I wouldn't know, I've never played it. What I've seen looks a lot like Demon's Souls.
    From an IGN faq:

    You can cut off your enemy's head, then pick it up and beat the next enemy to death with it!

  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    967
    Quote Originally Posted by Cooper View Post
    Why buy these games?
    Are you asking why buy them in lieu of pirating them, or why play them at all?

  12. #12
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    734
    Its the sad truth of Gog that the money almost never reaches the developers.
    In an ideal world there'd be residuals and royalties (say 5-10% of any sale) shared out among the main band who made it. But thats the problem I guess, how do you classify the band? A game from 6 years ago could have hundreds of people working on it and how do you decide who gets what?

  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,689
    I think this whole mentality of 'wanting to support the developers' is misguided and naive and people need to open their eyes a bit.

    When a developer decides to make a commercial game they will usually need the support of a publisher(s) to fund development and ensure the widest possible market for their game. Even self-publishing developers need the support of DD services, App Marketplaces, Ad Networks and the like - and they all expect a piece of the pie.

    This mentality that only developers should benefit from their work is, therefore, kinda stupid.

    Developers are like everyone else in business - some are good at it but most are bad. That they are creating things you love doesn't spare them the need to have some business savvy if they want to be commercially successful.

    The same deal applies to artists and musicians too - if they aren't wise, other people will happily take the lions share of their income too. Again, they need to either show more business-sense or stop trying to make money from what they do.

    So can we please move away from this childlike blinkered idea that

    Developer=good guy
    Everyone else=badguy

    Because it's kinda wearing...

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Berzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2,257
    I quite agree with trjp -- and I do want as much money as possible to go to the person who is actually responsible for creating the thing that I enjoy. =) But if at some point during his career the game developer decided to enter into a business agreement with a distributor or publisher of some kind, and if at some point that publisher entered into a business agreement with another business, and if the eventual result of all of those agreements is that somebody else gets to make money off of the game...well, it all started with the developer's decision, and as long as there wasn't any fraud or cheating in the process, why shouldn't I honor the developer's perfectly valid business agreements by paying the people he made a deal with, according to the terms of the deal?

    Unless you have some sort of default assumption that everyone who bargains over their creation got swindled in the transaction, why wouldn't you deal with it plainly like any other business?
    Support for my all-pepperjack-cheese food bank charity drive has been lukewarm at best.

  15. #15
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Terra Australis Incognita
    Posts
    4,525
    Quote Originally Posted by Berzee View Post
    Unless you have some sort of default assumption that everyone who bargains over their creation got swindled in the transaction, why wouldn't you deal with it plainly like any other business?
    Because this is game development, which means "Drama++". Games are the odd one out because although they're effectively creative works, they're still made by what is effectively a business. If you're selling your game on any sort of serious scale, you have to be a business. It's not like the art world where someone makes a piece of art and people pay what they think it's worth. Even the music industry isn't really the same as the gaming industry, because the gaming community has an incredibly vocal interest in what developers and publishers do. Thus any business dealings aren't just business dealings, they're considered insults by the gaming community. If a developer says "We'll be going for a cross-platform release", people translate that to "We're abandoning the PC". If a developer says "We're cutting Feature X which was in the previous game" people translate that to "We're dumbing it down because we're thick." If the gaming community has demonstrated anything, it's that they don't care about the business decisions or anything like that. All we really care about is the game that we get.

    Developers should get credit for their game, but publishers are doing part of the work too, and they will get a cut of the pie (and if they funded development that's not an unreasonable expectation). Likewise, as Berzee said, if a developer enters into an agreement with a publisher, that's their choice. It's just that as gamers we're ridiculously vocal about these choices and condemn most of them.

    Also I sort of agree with trjp, in part that a developer who releases a crap game or doesn't go about marketing it properly and loses it all fails with good reason. I also don't agree with continually supporting developers by buying the game again and again for no good reason (and the HIB releases are the worst ones for this). Introversion were on the ropes for a while, a combination of effectively sitting on their hands hoping Multiwinia would be interesting (it was Darwinia with MP, that was never going to be enough) combined with poor marketing. If they'd hit the floor and lost it all, it would have been because of their poor business decisions. If Project Zomboid had shut up shop following that ridiculous theft, they would have deserved it for failing to properly back up their data. Developers deserve their money when they deliver, but unconditional support seems ridiculous to me, especially if they're not making good choices.

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    3,768
    We're in a transition period. Money from GoG sales of most games now is indeed icing on the cake. It's revenue publishers didn't expect to see, because GoG didn't exist when the game was being made.

    But now it does, and if games do well on there then sends a very clear message: that games can sell well past their first month, year or even decade. And those sales can be quantified and used to predict sales on future games. Any publisher putting out new PC games now should be considering the long-term sales, either through GoG or just continuous availability on Steam or wherever. It gives a bit more money to play with, and also encourages the production of games that people will want to go back and play in ten years' time.

  17. #17
    Network Hub icemann's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    146
    Well any case of where a company gobbled up another one (eg the numerous take overs that EA has done over the decades) would be one case of where it happens.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    1,996
    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    It gives a bit more money to play with, and also encourages the production of games that people will want to go back and play in ten years' time.
    No it doesn't.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    5,689
    What Wizardry said - pretty much the only thing which guarantees a developer will do more of what they do is strong initial sales of a title (pre-orders + first few weeks at most) - same as movies where the opening weekend is king.

    This is why DRM remains popular with many developers - because if it can stop pre-release and first-week piracy, they've reduced damage in THE most sensitive time. After that, it's arguable most developers working through publishers don't care about sales and any remaining royalties etc are - at best - gravy.

  20. #20
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    282
    I buy a game because I want to play it.

    As long as the money isn't going towards slave labor or abortion or whatever, that's about as deep as I'm going to get into worrying where exactly the money goes.

    Even if the money goes for some atrocity I have a hard time giving up say chocolate because kids are oppressed harvesting cocoa in east africa. I just hope the chocolate bars I eat don't come from the bad farms.

    I wonder if some of these developers have programmers chained to the basement who are only fed oatmeal if they produce enough. I once had a job like that.

    OK, it would be nice if the purchase money could go towards the developer having a big juicy pizza, a good one if the game turns out good. If the game is junk I hope he gets indigestion.

    If someone unrelated bought the rights, well that's the joys of capitalism
    Last edited by BenWah; 04-02-2012 at 11:19 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •