Results 41 to 60 of 72
04-03-2012, 10:59 PM #41
Edit: Furthermore, the Mesmer was THE PvP class in GW1 and all about mindgames and forcing choices. I hope this aspect will remain. In addition, interrupting was challenging to master as well.
Concerning the editing: Are you maybe using noscript?
Last edited by squirrelfanatic; 04-03-2012 at 11:19 PM.
05-03-2012, 03:40 AM #42
I've been watching a lot of the Yogscast gw2 coverage and the game is looking pretty good. I can't help but wonder at some of the choices however.
There is no loot system. Everyone gets their own loot tables and there is no rolling for loot. How is this a good thing? How will you trade loot when in a PUG? There doesn't seem to be a trade interface that allows you to do this either. It seems the auction house is the only real way of trading gear. I find this aspect of the game kind of troubling.
Also the level scaling. I understand scaling people up and down for PVP but they seem to be scaling people down for PvE as well... what is the point of leveling up in that case? The whole point of an RPG is to dvelop your character and see them become stronger. Does your character stays at the same power level and just moves on to different areas? I have heard they are doing this so a high level player could visit a low level area and still find a challenge, well do they get rewarded for this challenge? Does a lv40 get the same amount of xp/loot from killing a lv10 mob as they do from killing a lv40 mob? If not why are they equally challenging?
05-03-2012, 04:12 AM #43
It's exciting to me to see an MMO be so mechanics-focused. The traditional RPG layout has you upgrading your stats at roughly the same rate that enemies gain stats which keeps you in the same mechanically-stagnant position from beginning to end.
An RPG purely about watching numbers increase relative to other numbers does nothing for me, unless it's tabletop.
Last edited by Reinhardt; 05-03-2012 at 04:22 AM.
05-03-2012, 08:09 AM #44
05-03-2012, 09:08 AM #45
The reason for individual loot rolling is so that players who are not teaming together are not punishing each other for helping out with an objective. It's a big part of encouraging people to play together instead of avoiding each other.
However you're not exclusively going to acquire loot for your chosen profession, so there is still a reason to trade as you will get junk.
You still earn XP and loot for playing content while scaled down, but I don't know if this is at the rate equivalent to your own level or lower (Guild Wars 2 has a different kind of levelling curve, to boot). But the point of the feature is to allow friends to play together regardless of their level, to prevent power levelling and to preserve the quality of play for low level players.
Sidekicking of this sort has been around in MMOs for a while. The major difference is as GW2 employs an open grouping system they can't exactly wait for you to join a group before lowering your effective level to match the content, so its zone wide.
Your character still develops, and gets stronger. Like the first Guild Wars though, much of it is through the power of more choices, as your skill bar will remain 10-strong for most of the game (from level 30 onwards). You will also improve through earning gear and traits (and stats). I can't tell you with accuracy what happens to each of traits, stats and gear stats when your level is reduced, of the top of my head, but I've seen that skill slots and power selections are not re-locked when you go back. So even while lowered down you will have some advantages over a low-level player.
Blah, that's a lot of text.
EDIT: Removed Monday morning-induced snark.
Last edited by Screwie; 05-03-2012 at 11:23 AM.
06-03-2012, 03:06 AM #46
Call me cynical but a mail system is not the same thing as a trading interface. What if I want to trade with a total stranger in my group a piece if loot for another piece of loot. Who sends it via mail first? This would be a common activity since everyone has their own loot tables right?
Considering the loot system is a way to get around all the nastiness in a rolling system their trade system relies on a great deal of trust does it not?
As for the level scaling I'm not convinced, my favorite memories of MMOs are of triump despite hardship. Successfully hiding from the high level bully, getting to that rare mining node first and in moments getting destroyed by a high level player when I get in their way. That's the reason you strive to get to a higher level, to get better gear. If everyone is always more or less equal I think it will detract from the rewards of advancing in the game.
06-03-2012, 04:17 AM #47
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
- Peterborough, UK
RPG type games used to be about sitting around a table with your friends, and having a damn good time. A small element of the table top games was to get a better type of weapon to fight the coming tougher enemies. Unfortunately the "damn good time" has been marginalised and switched for the position of "get a better type of weapon", to the point of it being an artform.
I've played Guild Wars for a couple of years now. You reach the max level in a few days, and when you mention that to a WoW / free to play player, they can't get their head round it, because for them it's all about the addictiveness of the grind. Despite many players hatred of that grind, they still pour hours of their free time into doing it. Also, WoW in PvE is just really really easy.
Guild wars is different in that it's a whole story that you can play through, it's always a challenge fighting monsters, and you genuinely can have a grea time with your mates. The instancing of Guild Wars is a slight mistake I think, but works well.
The whole point of Guild Wars 2 is, instead of the WoW type "Oh no there's another player there, I hope he doesn't come near me where I'm killing ten rats", it's more "Ah nice, there's another guy there, lets hope he comes and joins in over here to make this fight even better and more rewarding".
Since I heard about mmos ten or so years ago, I've always been waiting for the experience of joining up with other people for the greater good. That hasn't happened to it's fullest potential, but I know it will some day, and Guild Wars 2 may well come very close.
06-03-2012, 10:19 AM #48
You do raise a valid point about the trading mechanic though. Hopefully someone takes a closer look at that.
06-03-2012, 10:36 AM #49
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
While I'm a big fan of other MMOs, the levelling and item-grind is not a major part of that. I'll admit there is definitely a thrill in upgrading your character at the endgame, but I also like experiencing the journey at my own pace.
While I don't want to divert the thread too much, I want to make a comparison to WoW here. Personally I like playing with friends, but the moment that you start levelling with friends, everything becomes far too easy. My group of friends has taken to levelling in white/grey items in an effort to keep some challenge while still being able to play with each other. Even alone, the moment you do a couple of instances or battlegrounds, you end up too powerful for your quests.
The idea of being able to go where I want with whomever I want, and still enjoy the challenge, is incredibly exciting.
06-03-2012, 01:09 PM #50
06-03-2012, 01:40 PM #51
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
MMO's are all about progression and if there are nothing to strive for, as Stormbane says, then what is the whole idea of having levels in the first place?
I simply cannot put any logic to their way of handling it. It makes very little sense in an MMO to do it this way.
06-03-2012, 01:53 PM #52
06-03-2012, 02:26 PM #53
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
06-03-2012, 02:35 PM #54
Today I've learned that people actually enjoy meaningless item grind and carrot-dangling treadmills.
WoW and its brethren are exercises in the weakness of human psychology. Playing in order to socialize with your friends is one thing—it seems like a good medium for long-distance relationships—but the gameplay is a tried-and-true Skinner's box.
Last edited by Reinhardt; 06-03-2012 at 02:47 PM.
06-03-2012, 02:40 PM #55
I intentionally used the term many as by design it is a collective word without implying any kind of proportion. Look at the 1 million signed beta testers for GW2. If only 10% of them understand the style of MMO they've registered interest in, that's still many people.
06-03-2012, 02:49 PM #56
Great post Bobby Fizz, I tip my hat to that.
I would assume the trade system works the same as GW1, so you meet up and trade, both parties have to select their item and gold and approve it. If it's mailing, I assume the standard C.O.D. would apply. I don't see a problem with that. GW1 didn't have an official auction house, so it will be interesting to see if GW2 does have one or goes down a different route.
I do love the GW1 loot system, was infuriating having loot rolls and arguments about need/greed. The world is better off without it and 'loot ninjas'.
06-03-2012, 03:11 PM #57
Edit: I notice you use the word "Achieve" which is interesting because for me, the endless Grind of WoW acheived absolutely nothing. I actually played WoW for a while and I came away empty. I didn't feel I had acheived a thing. I played through Mirror's Edge, as an example, which is a game in which there is no character or loot progression at all (although granted it is a single player game) and upon completing the game felt enormous satisfaction and a sense of achievement.
Everyone is different but many people's taste coincide. If you enjoy something, it is safe to say that many others probably do too. It is ALSO safe to say that many others do not. You cannot please everyone
Last edited by SanguineAngel; 06-03-2012 at 03:15 PM.
06-03-2012, 05:01 PM #58
- Join Date
- Dec 2011
Their scaling however, is horrific in my opinion -> which was what our discussion was based upon, not your own example of achieving something.
06-03-2012, 05:08 PM #59
So from the footage I've seen in TB's mailboxes, it appears that you spend a lot of time striking at doors. It literally took a team of people five real life minutes of just hitting this door for it to open, on multiple occasions. I hope that's the only time-stretching going on.
06-03-2012, 05:12 PM #60
Well I got side tracked on the achievement thing. But you seem to be talking about grinding for loot et al. being the only meaningful form of progression within MMOs and that that is the only reason for playing at all. I disagree simply because grinding for loot is not important to me; it being the sole focus of the game puts me off. However, the other potential aspects of MMOs are very appealing to me.
I enjoy levelling characters up as much as the next guy, and picking up loot DOES possess it's own addictive joy. But is it the focus of my enjoyment in MMOs? No! WoW soon became nothing more than a loot grind, which you seem to enjoy. I don't have a problem YOU enjoying that. But for me? Not important.
I don't have a problem with GW2's level scaling method at all. It suits my needs. I will not be playing this game constantly. I'll be dipping in and out no doubt. It will enable me to play with my friends and to contribute meaningfully with everyone I interact with. It will enable THEM to interact meaningfully with my game experience too.
My point is that there IS more to MMOs than grinding for loot or pushing to progress your character and that those things do not NEED to be the focus of every MMO out there. What HAS been needed, from my point of view, is a game that caters to alternative tastes. This is something that the developers of GW2 understand well and it excites me.
Last edited by SanguineAngel; 06-03-2012 at 05:14 PM.