Guild Wars 2 Beta this weekend (17th - 19th Feb)

[squirrelfanatic]

Gozuu, I guess what he was saying is that progression is not all that MMOs are about for him. You don't have to dislike progress just because of that, but GW1 - and as it seems this will hold true for GW2 as well - was less about farming stuff in order to progress to the next bite of content than other games of the genre are.

However, you could grind to your heart's content if you wanted to. In fact, there were whole guilds and alliances created just for doing this in an organized way. What you got out of this wasn't better gear in the sense of better stats but rare - and sometimes nicer - skins. So the progression worked more in a horizontal manner than in a vertical one. Get stuff with the same stats but cooler looks. I really like that. People can feel 1337 about that if they like and put their stuff in their Hall of Monuments but others don't need it just to progress through the story line.

[SanguineAngel]

Thank you squirrelfanatic, you are correct - and far more concise than me!

[sendmark]

So from the footage I've seen in TB's mailboxes, it appears that you spend a lot of time striking at doors. It literally took a team of people five real life minutes of just hitting this door for it to open, on multiple occasions. I hope that's the only time-stretching going on.

You're supposed to use siege engines to break the doors, hence why it took them ages to do it manually with weapon striking. If the doors just broke from a few guys breaking them with normal weapons, it would make sieges pointless.

[Kodeen]

You're supposed to use siege engines to break the doors, hence why it took them ages to do it manually with weapon striking. If the doors just broke from a few guys breaking them with normal weapons, it would make sieges pointless.

That is reassuring. Not because I was worried about doors specifically, but I was worried that it indicated that GW2 had made design decisions to keep you in the game longer, like sub MMO's are notorious for doing, which GW2 shouldn't have needed because there are no subs.

[Dominic Tarason]

Keep in mind that a single WvW match takes two weeks. If a keep could be knocked down in 30 seconds, it would effectively neuter any chance to mobilize defences, and make taking and trying to hold locations pretty pointless.

Siege weapons are meant to speed up knocking doors down, but even a siege golem will only take down a small percentage of the door's health before dying. After all, it's meant to be a siege, not a zerg rush.

[Reinhardt]

I think the problem is not that the door takes so long to knock down but that it's literally a small wooden door. If it were some other large object that could be broken down over time or even some type of guardian creature, I think the whole operation would put less stress on our suspension of disbelief.

[Gozuu]

Well I got side tracked on the achievement thing. But you seem to be talking about grinding for loot et al. being the only meaningful form of progression within MMOs and that that is the only reason for playing at all. I disagree simply because grinding for loot is not important to me; it being the sole focus of the game puts me off. However, the other potential aspects of MMOs are very appealing to me.

I enjoy levelling characters up as much as the next guy, and picking up loot DOES possess it's own addictive joy. But is it the focus of my enjoyment in MMOs? No! WoW soon became nothing more than a loot grind, which you seem to enjoy. I don't have a problem YOU enjoying that. But for me? Not important.

I don't have a problem with GW2's level scaling method at all. It suits my needs. I will not be playing this game constantly. I'll be dipping in and out no doubt. It will enable me to play with my friends and to contribute meaningfully with everyone I interact with. It will enable THEM to interact meaningfully with my game experience too.

My point is that there IS more to MMOs than grinding for loot or pushing to progress your character and that those things do not NEED to be the focus of every MMO out there. What HAS been needed, from my point of view, is a game that caters to alternative tastes. This is something that the developers of GW2 understand well and it excites me.

You are right, there are without a doubt much to do that does not involve farming for equipment or progressing through raids and dungeons. I often just find that it is very hard to distinguish between progression and other elements in an MMO. They all lure you towards the same way of going through the content, which more often than not is progression by farming. MMO's are a farming game if I may say so, some more than others. The less, I would say, the better.

[Stormbane]

I would imagine it works much like in other MMOs and multi-player RPGs whereby you send a message that then acts as a mini bartering system. You both actively have to accept the conditions of the trade before anything is actually exchanged? I can't see how it could be any other way

From watching some of the beta videos I have not seen a system like this but I hope you're right and this exists or is at least planned.

Today I've learned that people actually enjoy meaningless item grind and carrot-dangling treadmills.

The 10 million strong WoW subscribers should have given you a small inkling no? :)

I've never played Guild Wars 1 and from reading some of the posts it seems it did something different that many people enjoyed. I guess I'll see if I like their "horizontal progression" when the game comes out.

On another note did Guild War 1 have a dodging system? Also did the skills work in the same way that is no target required. If so how did these systems work in high latency (200-300ms) ?

[Reinhardt]

I was just surprised to see someone specifically ask for grind, but my post was a little incisive and I apologize for that.

GW1 has no jumping or dodging mechanics, although some attacks can be manually avoided. WoW has similar AoE attacks and you're right in suggesting that a high latency can make these attacks hard to use or evade effectively.

[R-F]

The dodging system in GW2 is damage immunity whilst dodging. That's to help vs high latency.

[Screwie]

GW1 has no jumping or dodging mechanics, although some attacks can be manually avoided. WoW has similar AoE attacks and you're right in suggesting that a high latency can make these attacks hard to use or evade effectively.

Yep. Guild Wars 1 took the different approach of moving combat away from accuracy stat vs defence stat - that is to say, unless your target will actively do something to counter it (typically, use a skill to block/evade/interrupt the attack, although some projectiles can be avoided just by moving out the way) then your attack will hit 100% of the time.

So you would never whiff simply because your attack rolled low. Although some of the terminology has changed and they've added the evade roll, this design is being carried forward to GW2 as well.

(No real point to that info dump other than it's an apporach I really liked, and am glad is returning in GW2.)

In GW1 enemies and allies had to be targeted with skills, and few skills had an instant cast time. However the cast times meant that, even with latency present, a character had a good chance of interrupting their opponent's attack.

Cast time has all but vanished in GW2, and the greater demands on latency was probably a factor in the introduction of the invulnerable dodge roll, new boons and conditions that work 100% of the time but expire after 1 hit, and the changing role of mesmers.

On the subject of GW2 mesmers, someone asked a while ago and interrupts still exist after a fashion. However they will all be tied to knockbacks and conditions this time around, and there is no "pure" interrupt.

This was in part due to latency demands but also to improve the profession's versatility and lower the entry-level skill required to play them effectively (anyone can benefit with a daze skill, but a mesmer master can also interrupt with it).


EDIT: A few corrections because my typing is dreadful.

[Hurmferd]

I loved playing GW1 and from everyone's discussion here (and the released videos), it appears that the mechanics and PVE atmosphere of GW2 will be something that I'll enjoy. I'll definitely be buying this game and giving it a try.

This has probably already been discussed ad nauseum, but I have to mention that from what I've seen, the GW2 graphics and art design are underwhelming for me. GW1 had a grittier look than WoW and I appreciated that. I do/did not like the cartoonish look of WoW and much prefer more realistic, darker imagery, which GW1 was leaning towards, but GW2 appears to be moving away from realistic and more towards a cartoonish, highly saturated look. I could be wrong, and maybe there will configuration options that will allow me to tweak the game's appearance, but so far I'm disappointed in the previews.

As I said, I plan to purchase and support GW2, but I was hoping for something a bit different.

H.