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Thread: Group Direction

  1. #1
    Network Hub Challenger2uk's Avatar
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    Community Maintenance

    Keeping the Community up-to-date and Maintained

    One Direction goes to steam...on a serious note this is about steam groups and other social clubs that ther clients provide that RPS has that new players need help getting directions to the wider RPS community. Firstly I made a few screenshots and toke them off the Elite Dangerous steam group, they are not the worst admined steam group I have seen on steam bearing the RPS tags but has its flaws.

    1. invite.png(click to enlarge)
    This is heavily frowned upon, as if its not bad enough I can't meet up with RPS in London or Brighton that it requires someone to be online, get a friend request, a PM and a forum post (if the newcomer finds the forum) just to get to play with the RPS group. The RPS community is based in the UK, London, but is not restricted to there, we have players from all around the world. We should not restrict people finding and joining our community if they can't find the forums first. If you want to make a private group for yourself and friends thats fine but as an RPS group I prefer you show openiness and welcome everyone and all.

    2.Members.jpg(click to enlarge)
    This brings me to the second part of members, with RPS E:D group having pretty much everyone as a moderator. I can't say whats wrong with this if you know everyone, but I requested an invite to the group got a mod position and I have no idea who the admin is, I probably spoke to him on mumble but thats like me saying I know David Cameron inside and out (poor fellas that are not a mod) But also the fact there is one admin, a number of steam groups bearing RPS have inactive admins some haven't logged on to steam for over a year, the DOTA group who are still very active have a single admin that is closing in on two months inactivity, worse their mumble details are out of date which makes it harder for people to get together. I have no objection to admins going on holiday for months or years but we always need someone else to admin the group, if you no longer want to admin the group pass the reigns to me, I spoke to some admins to update their mumble details which they did without question, but I feel they have no interest in the group which leads me to think what the future holds for the group.

    3.Links.jpg(click to enlarge)
    Now the admins role, some think its to get their name up there as someone who has power, or maybe to make their steam profile page look good. I like to think its a big responsability, if newcomers come by you need to flock them to the forums (a newcomer to a RPS group asked for anyone playing he got a reply saying "Nope we don't play this anymore", others get "steam group is inactive but forum is" with no link to forum), guide them through the groups procedures, help them in their quest to find a community worth playing with. No point in having an admin who does nothing while fledgling little members do the heavy work. Get the website linked, the forum to the game linked, get the assocciated games on your group so members can associate with your group more easily. Steam also has a calendar system that some groups use for community events (the one I noticed doing this is Pen+Paper, a group that needs no bought game). This is where having a few active admins come in handy.

    4.Description.jpg(click to enlarge)
    Descriptions, some of them are hilarious to read which is all good, gets newcomers laughing before they even join our mumble. Which is the problem, I don't see mumble details. We need mumble detials, yes I know there is a whole thread detailing it but when you been playing with the community for years and the mumble disappears and the steam group has an inactive admin with half the members playing GTAV...well that to me looks like a dead group. Oh well best be joining the next top model as RPS is dead. If you don't want to admin a group, or find it too heavy a work load for you to handle, hand someone else admin rights, you can have more than one and I will jump on top of all this too if you need help.

    Now thats groups out of the road, now the forums (please don't ban me mods, its for the best)
    Being I play PS2 more than any other game, the NC have no recruitment thread, some of the stickies have broken links and some of the stickies could be consolidated into one thread for cleanliness, some groups are really inactive such as arma (they have their own website/forum), solium folium molium whatever its called, googled it looks crap not surprised its dead lol and finally Domino's Pizza. Some forums don't have stickies which makes it confusing for newcomers to decide where they go, how to join the community etc, some don't even have a link to their steam group.

    I am sure there are several other problems I could throw at all the community leaders face and put them in their place, which reminds me of another problem. Some groups *cough*PS2*cough*(remember seeing a thread discussing this matter can't find it at this moment) don't even have a leader. But lets discuss these topics first and get some feedback from the community and moderators here to see how we can better clean this up then move on to other topics. /slabberaway

    TL;DR, If your a community leader your not doing a very good job.
    Last edited by Challenger2uk; 13-05-2015 at 12:00 AM.

  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Solium Internum all but requires 5-6 people to dedicate to two months worth of agonizing daily conniving, lying and general dickery. Naturally, only the most upstanding folks are worthy to such a taxing commitment, so we've been organizing independent the forums. I'd happily run multiple games if there were ample players, but the steel resolve necessary to participate is privileged to few and generally only sustainable once or twice a year. There's also a bit of a problem with only so many builds being viable, so entertaining custom rules generally make for the best games. I think you were talking about something else but you went off on some ignorance so I went off too.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Part of the issues with the forums are that we are dependent on administrators to remove them, and the administrators almost all happen to be RPS writers. Who are very busy writing things.

    However, that doesn't mean we can't help on a forum by forum level. If you need a thread stickied, you can PM the mods or, heck, you can even report it! I can totally relate to how the normally informal nature of the RPS gaming groups can make stuff a bit disorganized, so we are happy (even eager) to help.

    I like this forum's name though. It's a bit silly, and RPS always has been about fun and biscuits.

  4. #4
    Network Hub Challenger2uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Solium Internum all but requires 5-6 people to dedicate to two months worth of agonizing daily conniving, lying and general dickery. Naturally, only the most upstanding folks are worthy to such a taxing commitment, so we've been organizing independent the forums. I'd happily run multiple games if there were ample players, but the steel resolve necessary to participate is privileged to few and generally only sustainable once or twice a year. There's also a bit of a problem with only so many builds being viable, so entertaining custom rules generally make for the best games. I think you were talking about something else but you went off on some ignorance so I went off too.
    I apologize I do go off on one very easily, I got an extreme fetish for OCD and like things neat, tidy and in order. When I see something like that forum lying abandoned I cringe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Part of the issues with the forums are that we are dependent on administrators to remove them, and the administrators almost all happen to be RPS writers. Who are very busy writing things.

    However, that doesn't mean we can't help on a forum by forum level. If you need a thread stickied, you can PM the mods or, heck, you can even report it! I can totally relate to how the normally informal nature of the RPS gaming groups can make stuff a bit disorganized, so we are happy (even eager) to help.

    I like this forum's name though. It's a bit silly, and RPS always has been about fun and biscuits.
    Some of the stickies are out of date with links to sites that don't excist anymore (some were made 2012-13) if I made up a new one I could get the old out and the new in?
    What does the Ok mean on the forum name?

    But mainly the worries for me is the steam groups, having active admins and keeping the information up-to-date and using the calendar system to inform the community when their are events due.

  5. #5
    Moderator Krathor's Avatar
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    Evening!

    Good points overall I think. I hope you noticed that mention of any Steam group was not-so-conspicuously absent from the How To Get Involved post on the main site? I'm aware of the main group and the many game-specific off-shoots, but I felt it more appropriate to drive folks towards the forum and Mumble - two places we now have a decent level of oversight with lots of positive activity.

    Regardless of the invite-only Steam groups which are run by players, even the main group needs updating - everything from the actual description (Bad Company 2 server!?) to the Player of the Week. What surprises me is that people actually try to start discussion topics in the group, when they should actually be posting here - in this forum! There's a tonne of other issues but it's on the list of things to get raise with the admins in good time. In the meantime, people should ideally be directed to the forum to discuss their favourite game and plan playing sessions.

    I'd say having people register with the forum should be a requirement of pretty much anyone who plays with us; it gives them the opportunity to see what games are actually active (even outside of Steam) and provides exposure to the sorts of standards we expect from members of the community (see: The Rules). You may think this is unrealistic to expect everyone we randomly pick up through Steam games to register on the forum, but I can tell you we've applied this tactic universally to recruits from GW2 and it seems to work well.

    Unfortunately, we are limited with what other Steam groups we can control. I do think it's silly that random players can just start up any unofficial group, run it haphazardly for a few weeks and then let it fall into inactivity. You really have to remember that managing all of the different RPS Steam groups related to different games would currently be a full-time job, which is why I'm more focused on fixing the central one first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger2uk View Post
    Being I play PS2 more than any other game, the NC have no recruitment thread
    They don't?

    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger2uk View Post
    some of the stickies have broken links and some of the stickies could be consolidated into one thread for cleanliness
    Agreed. This is something else I'd like to work on, but am pretty snowed under. If anyone actually wants to take this on, I'm happy to look it over, edit it and sticky a new thread as appropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger2uk View Post
    some groups are really inactive such as arma (they have their own website/forum)
    Agreed. But I'll come onto this in a second...

    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger2uk View Post
    solium folium molium whatever its called, googled it looks crap not surprised its dead lol
    Careful there - PS2 may look like a Halo rip-off to some... ;)

    If you've been paying attention, you will have noticed we had subforums for both Natural Selection 2 and Wildstar until not long ago. You will have also seen that I made threads in those subforums to check for activity and once it became clear they weren't active games, I e-mailed Graham for them to be smited. I was eyeing The Hell Game too, but it's not been months and months of inactivity yet and I know that it's not exactly easy to get a game going.

    Arma's a tricky one and I'd argue against getting rid of the subforum just because they have their own site as it's still technically an active game. Still, there's probably a better way we can fit it in with the rest of Game Clubs...

    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger2uk View Post
    TL;DR, If your a community leader your not doing a very good job.
    Dude, dude, dude. What a generalisation to make! Some communities are absolutely thriving in RPS - just look beyond the Steam groups. I know a lot of standards could be improved but you have to remember, some of our smartest and wisest leaders (not including myself there, heh) also have lives, work, kids etc. and this is just a hobby for them.

    And when it comes to being a community leader, I'd personally spend what limited free time I have promoting the positive things the community has done and organising fun events for the future than general clean-up. That said, if there's a sparky new (or not-so-new) member who wants to raise their profile by helping draft new stickies and the like, then it's always appreciated.

    Also, I like the forum title too.
    Last edited by Krathor; 11-05-2015 at 07:13 PM. Reason: Words, heh.
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  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Arma's a tricky one and I'd argue against getting rid of the subforum just because they have their own site as it's still technically an active game. Still, there's probably a better way we can fit it in with the rest of Game Clubs...
    On some forum softwares (not sure about this one) you can turn a forum into a direct link towards another webpage, I think that would be best for the Arma community.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Thanks for the input, I will think about your suggestions and see what I can do to improve the small group I'm trying to get going.

    Is Steam support willing to sort out the problem with existing groups having lost all of their active admins?

    Also, this brings up the problem with the main RPS group. Despite having many admins and mods who are still active on Steam, just in the last few days we've had two spam threads created that have not been removed.

    There is very little linkage in there, and that is likely the first group people will see. If someone with enough power is reading this and willing to put a golden star next to my nick, I'll try to improve the situation there, too.
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  8. #8
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Update: got myself a golden star and cleaned up a little spam. As for the linkage, the permission to make those changes is restricted to the owner, so I've asked John for help.
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  9. #9
    Moderator Krathor's Avatar
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    Sweet stuff alms. I was close to making the dreaded suggestion of maybe scrapping it altogether and restart with active admins and mods, but it would be a shame to lose 20,000 members.

    Challenger, you mentioned use of the calendar: Cei has actually put a list of regular events across all gaming communities on a Mumble channel description and the GW2 folks keep a thread that has been updated frequently since June 2013. I love forum-based antics so my preference would be a thread in Game Clubs... to summarise activity across all titles we play, with regular announcements on the Steam group at the relevant times with a link to the relevant forum thread on that game.

    Edit: Should have made clear that I would be willing to take ownership of both of these things (the thread and the Steam group announcements), so long as I have a little support.
    Last edited by Krathor; 11-05-2015 at 11:13 PM.
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    Network Hub Challenger2uk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krathor View Post
    Sweet stuff alms. I was close to making the dreaded suggestion of maybe scrapping it altogether and restart with active admins and mods, but it would be a shame to lose 20,000 members.

    Challenger, you mentioned use of the calendar: Cei has actually put a list of regular events across all gaming communities on a Mumble channel description and the GW2 folks keep a thread that has been updated frequently since June 2013. I love forum-based antics so my preference would be a thread in Game Clubs... to summarise activity across all titles we play, with regular announcements on the Steam group at the relevant times with a link to the relevant forum thread on that game.

    Edit: Should have made clear that I would be willing to take ownership of both of these things (the thread and the Steam group announcements), so long as I have a little support.
    I spent a while trying to set-up something on the forum that when an event is created people can sign up to it and their name is listed to attend. But the forums html restrictions kinda prevent that, atleast for google calendar.

  11. #11
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krathor View Post
    Sweet stuff alms. I was close to making the dreaded suggestion of maybe scrapping it altogether and restart with active admins and mods, but it would be a shame to lose 20,000 members.
    It may be a good idea to make sure the forum mods are all officers, in terms of permissions I can make that happen, but I would suggest subscribing to the group discussions: they're not worth checking manually, but the occasional thread crops up every few months (which I tried to provide a useful reply to in the past), and certainly spam too. Subscribing ensures that you get a Steam notification and can do something about it.

    If John agrees, the admin list will also be cleaned up.
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    Lesser Hivemind Node TWChristine's Avatar
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    I'm glad you pointed out some of the things you did; I've tried to make the first post to my game thread as full of new player information that I could and thought I'd done the same for the Steam group (mainly did the basics, with the idea that people would then see the events, and follow the link back to the thread which had all the info)....buuuut, looks like it could use some work! :)
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  13. #13
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Challenger2uk View Post
    I spent a while trying to set-up something on the forum that when an event is created people can sign up to it and their name is listed to attend. But the forums html restrictions kinda prevent that, atleast for google calendar.
    As it is right now, the announcements DO support HTML. I could make an indefinte announcement called "Upcoming events". Just PM me your post and I'll put it up there.

    Alternatively, I can ping Jams and ask if he can enable HTML codes on the sociability clubs forums. I'd almost be in favour of allowing it everywhere, simply because HTML code allows us to post images with alt-text :p

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    I don't think indefinite announcements can be made right now, but maybe that can be changed. Better check with Jams anyway, HTML could be a security problem, unless tag usage is restricted to a minimal set like on the comment section of the blog.
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  15. #15
    Moderator Krathor's Avatar
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    Although an announcement would be cool, I don't think we need to overcomplicate this; if Challenger has a post ready to go that accurately summarises the ongoing events in each community, let him post it as a fresh thread which can be stickied here in Game Clubs...

    This then enables him to edit it as the OP, alongside letting us mods do the same if we need to update it. Then you just ensure that you update the title to reflect when the OP was last updated, along with keeping the thread open for people to make us aware of new (or changed) evenings.

    Having a dedicated thread also makes linkage from the main RPS page a lot easier.

    How can I prove this is effective? We've done exactly this since June 2013 for GW2. Almost 800 posts and 703,000 views later, it still seems to work for that community - why not the rest?
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    Network Hub fer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    On some forum softwares (not sure about this one) you can turn a forum into a direct link towards another webpage, I think that would be best for the Arma community.
    Grizzly, I'm not sure if you're suggesting that the Arma sub-forum link to FA's site/forum/steam, but I wouldn't advise it. Your description elsewhere of FA being 'RPS co-founded' is accurate, but it follows that we don't claim to be the RPS Arma community. In the past, there was at least one other active community (the Giraffes), and there may also be people who want to create pick-up games using their own infrastructure or public servers (for KOTH etc.). There is also the DayZ crowd to consider, since they also inhabit the sub-forum (like the shambling zombies that they are).

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Thanks for chiming in, fer, and thanks for that advice. I may be a bit biased in favour of Folk ARPS :blush:.

  18. #18
    Network Hub fer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    Thanks for chiming in, fer, and thanks for that advice. I may be a bit biased in favour of Folk ARPS :blush:.
    Comrade, your loyalty to the Party is admirable! This morning, a freshly-minted tractor bearing your name rolled out of one of our great factories. Smiling workers posed beside a framed portrait of your avatar; there were pictures. Nobody was permitted to ask uncomfortable questions about your absence from the frontline. :)

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fer View Post
    Comrade, your loyalty to the Party is admirable! This morning, a freshly-minted tractor bearing your name rolled out of one of our great factories. Smiling workers posed beside a framed portrait of your avatar; there were pictures. Nobody was permitted to ask uncomfortable questions about your absence from the frontline. :)
    Subtly inconspicious absences which totally did not co-incide with regime changes elsewhere, obviously :P
    I'll take the hint and see if I can be there this sunday ;)

  20. #20
    Network Hub Challenger2uk's Avatar
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    I have been browsing through what RPS steam groups that I know off and been thinking. Most of them have few members who joined to play on a one night stand whilst others as far as I can see were created then abandoned with no news, links or announcements.
    Then I thought if it was really worth creating a steam group for every game someone in the RPS community takes a shine too. Don't get me wrong I am loving the weekly game of Torchlight II with Alms and co. but with 10 members on the steam group its hard to find people interested and keep it going. Then there is the usual Dota, PS2, GW2 groups who are busting at the seams with members.
    So I was thinking that we create genre based groups. We have one already it seems Rock, Paper, Shooting but it seems to have been created then abandoned, it really needs some TLC and some direction to the website/forums. But I was also thinking Rock, Paper, Strategy...Rock, Paper, Simulator etc. With this consolidation of the community more people will know when there is an event or a group of people are interested in playing a particular game some night.
    If your happy I would like to create a few threads in the next couple of months with recommendations to start the odd one up and if enough people post an interest then we could get it started. I think this would be better because steam events work, I get them every week from FolkARPS it would get more interest/participation when people play other games that isn't the 3 big ones.
    Last edited by Challenger2uk; 25-05-2015 at 07:07 PM.

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