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  1. #841
    Alright, thoughts on training day #1:

    Our biggest problem is going to be the later waves 7-10, when we have 2 banshees at a time spawning and rushing up to the high ground, not to mention 2-3 ravagers and 2-3 brutes with marauders and cannibals peppered in there. The "fall back to lower ground" seems to work for the first half, but we're having problems when we're getting cornered.

    I think what we need to do during waves 7-9 is call out where the banshees are coming up from, and IMMEDIATELY cut and run the opposite way. Don't worry about doing damage to them, the focus should be trailblazing through the non-banshee side. If there's a Ravager getting a bead on you, try to run perpendictual to it, and the ones not being shot at by the Ravager immediate charge it and kill it dead.

    Also, forgive being image heavy and all Hannibal planny, but I thought it useful to draw up a sandtable of Condor and a few game plans for situations.


    The rest will be links with an explination:

    http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...P/CondorB1.jpg
    Battle plan for Wave 1-5 Banshees from the Right. Team 2 moves down to the pad and starts engaging/clearing the Landing Pad, Parking Lot, and High Valley. Team 1 falls back to the Landing Pad to re-engage the Banshees, falling back further if needed.

    http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...P/CondorB2.jpg
    Battle plan for Wave 1-5 Banshees from the Left. Team 1 moves down to the low ground and starts engaging/clearing the Construction Yard, Pocket, and Low Valley. Team 1 falls back to the Construction Yard to re-engage the Banshees, falling back further if needed.

    http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r.../CondorB1b.jpg
    Battle plan for Wave 7-9 Banshees from the Right. Team 1 and 2 move down to the pad and start punching a hole to the Insertion Point to funnel the wave via Landing Pad -> Parking Lot -> Low Valley. Team 2 will make the call to any alternate paths if need be.

    http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r.../CondorB2b.jpg
    Battle plan for Wave 7-9 Banshees from the Left. Team 1 and 2 move down to the pad and start punching a hole to the Insertion Point to funnel the wave via Construction Yard -> Low Valley. Team 1 will make the call to any alternate paths if need be.

    http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r.../CondorH-N.jpg
    The worst Hold Position location on Condor, the Extraction Point is the frying pan of painful death if we try to hold it for too long. These two loops are our escape/fallback routes to pull the spawns away from the point. Remember, we don't want the spawns to respawn, so avoid killing critters unless you see the whites of their eyes.

    http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/r...CondorH-SE.jpg
    Not a favorable Hold Position location, but it offers multiple escape/fallback routes, thus ideal. These two loops are our fallback routes to pull the spawns away from the point. Remember, we don't want the spawns to respawn, so avoid killing critters unless you see the whites of their eyes.

  2. #842
    Also, for further analysis, the number count on Banshees per wave:

    Wave 1 - none
    Wave 2 - none
    Wave 3 - 2-4 depending on objective
    Wave 4 - none (usually a pile of Brutes/Ravagers)
    Wave 5 - 4-6
    Wave 6 - none (usually a pule of Brutes/Ravagers)
    Wave 7 - 6
    Wave 8 - 6
    Wave 9 - 6
    Wave 10 - 6+ (depending on objective)
    Wave 11 - 6+

    If we're good and keep it at 1 missile per 2 banshees, we're looking at 15 total best case scenario. Keep in mind we might have a kill target objective round on Wave 10, so that total goes up to 19. That'll leave 1-5 missile for the road home to the Extraction Point. This is why we need to kill as many banshees with regular weapons as we can, because we're sure to only get 1 of them or miss them completely in a panic.

  3. #843
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    Mass Effect 3: Serious Business

    An overly complicated plan isn't going to help, I think. It all comes down to prioritising the right targets and individual skill.

  4. #844
    Well I'm not demanding all plans be followed in the strictest sense under pain of death. Just tossing out some ideas of how to stay alive longer, considering we're using underpowered weapons and the least mobile race against a rushing enemy.

    Besides, easier to have a plan and break it than have to come up with something brilliant in the heat of the moment.

  5. #845
    Network Hub Memph's Avatar
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    The big problem is the lack of crowd control and mobility for objectives. No decoy, no turret, no bots and only Overload spam to stagger the smaller fry. The only way to break from camp with no Infiltrator is brute force and it can be sheer luck where those Ravagers and Banshees are coming from.

    I think the high ground is overall the best place - A group in the construction yard, or the drop-in zone can be successful, but of course that means plugging the bottlenecks appropriately, which Turians alone with little to no class synergy cannot do easily.
    Maybe 2 Soldiers sniping and 2 Sents spamming Overload and warping any armour (with the weapon damage debuff ofc) seems to me is the best they got.

    My main problem with the high ground, despite putting us furthest from spawns, is there's bugger all cover and what there is, is often dodgy to use, so you're constantly in panic mode as the potshots rain in and rockets curl around corners to hit you because you're not 'safe' as far as the AI is concerned. At least that's how the cover mechanic seems to work to me a lot of the time.

    Maybe having both Snipers cover the right hillside with the long run-up and have the Techs hold the landing pad ramp a bit further down, FBWGG stylee and try to grab as many as possible using the cover for quick kills - (i'm not quite certain if you can grab over the boxes up top) and only fall back for Banshees/Brutes. When the Banshees do come, both Soldiers could switch to ARs/shotties and hose them down, whilst a Sentinel Warp spams and they should go down quick enough. The other Sentinel in the meantime moves to the opposite side to draw fire and hold other incoming back with Overload whilst she's dealt with.

    Whichever way it's done, Bork's spot-on that more than a detailed plan, it's likely gonna take some madskills and maybe a bit of luck. Team awareness also. For instance; if a Sentinel's warping small mobs and following up with warp ammo, it's best to leave them to it and shoot something else. Anything not being shot at is left to shoot back. Preaching to the choir here I'm sure, but this happens too often with Biotics in PUGS I find, when I'm putting Stasis on things and everyone hoses them down before I can get Throw off and armoured mobs just waltz on through. There are too many mobs on Gold to all shoot at the same thing and it does no good to inturrupt biotic explosions just to rack up a kill - having a moan I know, but PUGS just don't seem to get this. It's also why the FoV gets my goat as it promotes tunnel-vision and I can't see enough of what's going on half the time. /end moan :) Time for a coffee.
    Last edited by Memph; 06-06-2012 at 11:06 AM.

  6. #846
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Been thinking about the Turian Soldier build for this particular challenge. I specced for Marksman & Proximity mines, but in truth in order to keep the prox mines flowing I barely used Marksman at all, esp given I was using the vindicator which is super accurate at distance anyway, but ammo light (marksman chews through ammo..and you don't want to be doing an ammo run unless you absolutely have to on condor). Memph and myself had little problem really in keeping the brutes and ravagers at bay from the right side just using standard fire, his powers and mines overall. I'm thinking maybe speccing for full concussive shot rather than marksman is the way to go (given the guns accuracy) and using the effect payload delivery system (disruptor III) of that to reduce the the banshee down to armour and thus more vulnerable to the sentinels who are loaded with AP III, and the prox mines I put down in their path as we kite them.

    Also according to the wiki (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Concussive_Shot)

    Against biotic barriers, the effectiveness of Concussive Shot is 3.5 times that of the normal effect.
    Not too sure if that's accurate, but I have a few reset packs so will try a con/prox build later on, and maybe we can do some silver runs later on.

    I think it all comes down to prioritising the right targets and individual skill.
    After your boorish behaviour in the chat last night Borkland, I think you'll find your opinions don't really count for much as far as the rest of the regular players are concerned. Half the fun of the game is playing with people you get on with, and telling an established player like JG to STFU because you don't particularly care for a topic of conversation during the downtime doesn't exactly make for a good first impression.
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  7. #847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    After your boorish behaviour in the chat last night Borkland, I think you'll find your opinions don't really count for much as far as the rest of the regular players are concerned. Half the fun of the game is playing with people you get on with, and telling an established player like JG to STFU because you don't particularly care for a topic of conversation during the downtime doesn't exactly make for a good first impression.
    Woah, what got into you? I can't disagree with you now? I never told JG to STFU, I merely stated my opinion and asked if we could get on with the game at hand.

  8. #848
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    It's not about disagreeing, it's about being plain rude to people. We were sorting out equipment and builds, and talking about E3.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  9. #849
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    Being rude was not my intention. If JG is as offended as you are on his behalf I will apologise to him. I would hope two sentences won't get in the way of enjoying ME3 with fellow RPS readers.

  10. #850
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Back on topic: -

    Played around with the revamped soldier build (prox & concussive) with Wiz, Memph & Sceptrum, using a Raptor for distance (and bullets) and Carnifex for up close. Pretty tidy on Silver tbh, but on Gold the main flaw with holding the higher ground is that if you have to retreat down the southern side you're pretty open to attack from anything below and you're easily undone if there's even more than a handful of marauders or ravagers loitering down there. It might be a case of having the 2 soldiers just concentrate on the banshee and the 2 sentinels clear the retreat/punch a hole.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  11. #851
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I missed rudeness! Forsooth!

    Also, awesome battle plan guys, good luck.
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  12. #852
    Network Hub Wizlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    It might be a case of having the 2 soldiers just concentrate on the banshee and the 2 sentinels clear the retreat/punch a hole.
    Whilst I was on nursery run, I thought something similar. We kept everything comfortably at distance until we had to draw firepower away to deal with the banshees. Plus that second time, I got OHK'd whilst trying to retreat (which is down to me being crap) and then once Sceptrum tried to help out with the banshee, the fuckers started spawning at the landing pad to the left of the high ground, and we were fucked.

    It's really a question of what we think most quickly fucks up a banshee. Sentinel's overpower shield damage rank 6 nicely messes up barriers, so combined with soldier's concussive shot and then both firing really fast, you should melt them down. But maybe two soldiers both hitting concussive shot and firing fast (or one with concussive shot and the other using a high ROF+marksman to spew out ridiculous bulletstorm), would work out as well. Regardless, it's a deffo a turian kill team dealing with a banshee, with the other two working on ravagers/banshees and then anything else.

    I reckon there's a bit of a kill order for whoever is holding the perimeter whilst the banshee team are at work, and my vote would be for ravagers first then brutes. Or maybe warp brutes, then focus on ravagers, then finish off the brute. and if another banshee shows up whilst the kill team are dealing with #1, either use a rocket or make a judgement call depending on how close the kill team are to finishing the first.

    I think it's crucial that you hold the high ground whatever, because once you lose it, that spawn point on the left will make it hard to retake.

  13. #853
    Network Hub Wizlah's Avatar
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    Also, whilst I think it, I was using the phaeston and the m5 phalanx, but on second thoughts, next time round I might go a phaeston and hornet for ammo back up. the phaeston with recoil compensation works fine for distance, but the hornet packs a punch up close, and bootch is still allowing it.
    Last edited by Wizlah; 06-06-2012 at 06:05 PM.

  14. #854
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Good observations that about the spawn point at the landing pad there Wiz. Definitely something that has to be keep in check. I think it's probably a case of trying to hold the line if they are coming up from the landing pad rather than retreating back. On the whole the other side isn't that hard to defend, as you have good visual range on everything and can generally keep anything coming up from the lower level pegged down. I'm wondering whether there's not an argument for 3 soldiers using prox and concussive (2 with disruptor and one with AP) to take advantage of prox mines to slow/reduce enemies on the access routes and just the one the sentinel spamming warp and overload.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

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  15. #855
    Network Hub Wizlah's Avatar
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    actually, bootch, you don't have any smgs down on your prohibited list. think you need to rethink that.

  16. #856
    Network Hub Wizlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Good observations that about the spawn point at the landing pad there Wiz. Definitely something that has to be keep in check.
    So long as you have one person there, it's all fine. you definitely can't lose both from the left side though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    I'm wondering whether there's not an argument for 3 soldiers using prox and concussive (2 with disruptor and one with AP) to take advantage of prox mines to slow/reduce enemies on the access routes and just the one the sentinel spamming warp and overload.
    Dunno. I think it's better with two sentinels and two soldiers. Another thought which occurred to me was I didn't use quiet time enough to mine the approach up to high ground with prox mines. My prox mines are generally specced for weakening the enemy rather than slowing them down. I was wondering if rather than disrupter, cryo might be a better way to go for soldiers.

  17. #857
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizlah View Post
    actually, bootch, you don't have any smgs down on your prohibited list. think you need to rethink that.
    N7 SMGs are also smgs.
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  18. #858
    Activated Node Simmura McCrea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizlah View Post
    actually, bootch, you don't have any smgs down on your prohibited list. think you need to rethink that.
    Because all the SMGs are crap? The Geth SMG's the only one I've ever seriously used, and that as a backup weapon.

    EDIT: Thinking about it, would a regular army have Geth guns?
    Last edited by Simmura McCrea; 06-06-2012 at 10:11 PM.
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  19. #859
    Network Hub Wizlah's Avatar
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    Great rejoicing. I have sorted out the problem myself. the me3 folder in my documents was hidden. I have unhidden it, the thing registered properly, everything is happy again. So I can play from my laptop. Not something I'd do for a gold turian run, I think, because I'd want the hardware setup to be optimal and not likely to impair performance on an already tight thing. But I should be around for that tonight.

  20. #860
    Network Hub Wizlah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Simmura McCrea View Post
    Because all the SMGs are crap? The Geth SMG's the only one I've ever seriously used, and that as a backup weapon.
    I like the hornet as a put 'em down quickly when they're close weapon. The geth smg is alright for medium range hosing, and the hurricane is the ultimate 'OHSHITETHEY'REONMEDIEDIEIDIEDIE' because of it's loverly rate of fire. But obviously we're not using the hurricane.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simmura McCrea View Post
    EDIT: Thinking about it, would a regular army have Geth guns?
    that would very much depend on whether we were fighting before the geth became friendly again, or after, I guess. Given that the turians released the plans for their krysae so that everyone could fabricate them, it's not out of the realms of possibility.

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