Mass Effect 3 endings [SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY]

[Nalano]

I suppose with the new maps that could be true, especially so early on.

Flipside to that argument is Back to Karkand, of course. But being that BF3 is a MP game with a vestigial SP campaign, the emphasis is a bit different than ME3's SP game with a tiny MP component.

[Kandon Arc]

Flipside to that argument is Back to Karkand, of course. But being that BF3 is a MP game with a vestigial SP campaign, the emphasis is a bit different than ME3's SP game with a tiny MP component.

Yeah true. I'd definitely be surprised if they didn't charge for future map packs though.

[deano2099]

Worth bearing in mind that while the maps are free, the characters are 'free' - they'll likely need to be unlocked through buying random packs, and I can see them being very rare. And while packs can be bought with credits, they can also be bought with Bioware points.

[Kandon Arc]

Worth bearing in mind that while the maps are free, the characters are 'free' - they'll likely need to be unlocked through buying random packs, and I can see them being very rare. And while packs can be bought with credits, they can also be bought with Bioware points.

I'd be interested to know what kind of money they make with the multiplayer. It could be that it pays for future MP DLC for the foreseeable future, TF2-style.

[Ravelle]

I'd be interested to know what kind of money they make with the multiplayer. It could be that it pays for future MP DLC for the foreseeable future, TF2-style.

They should add a map editor like with TF2, user made maps would be cool.

[Tei]

They should add a map editor like with TF2, user made maps would be cool.

EA is not that type of company.

[Nalano]

EA is not that type of company.

Yeah; it would cut into their profit margin - free competition is baaaad.

[duff]

I'm a bit late to the party. Okay so I just finished the game in the last day and the ending is indeed a whole metric ton of crap.

A. Synthesis.

This is completely alien to everything that Mass Effect is about. During the whole of the series we recruit aliens, synthetics and whole armies to fight the Reapers. These people are from vastly different cultures and societies, and that's why we need them: for their diversity, the different skills and attributes each race can bring. Javic himself says that the Protheans failed because they lacked the diversity to adapt to the Reaper threat. The supposedly good ending has us erase a huge chunk of our diversity and synthesises us so that we won't destroy each other, despite the galaxy doing the exact opposite to fight the Reapers. Even the Geth and Quarians work together, infact it's highly unlikely the Geth would have ever attacked the Quarians if they had been allowed freedom. Hell, even the fucking Geth say in ME2 that every species has the right to choose their own destiny.

B. Destroy.

This is the ending that I picked. You destroy all the Reapers and all synthetics. At the start of ME3 I would have probably been reasonably ambivalent to this conclusion. But throughout the course of the game I realised that the Geth and EDI (and any other synthetic) has as much a right to exist as humans or turians or even the Welsh. We witness EDI's transformation after her shackles are removed and it's really quite touching, I realised that the definition of life is not how much blood or chlorophyll we have in our bodies, but whether we are self aware. When EDI first asked me what the purpose of AI / synthetic life is I told her categorically it was to serve the purpose it was created for. She made me change my mind. Anything that advances to the point that it becomes self aware is 'alive' and deserves the right of sovereignty. So the only ending in which I could actually destroy these bastard reapers has me go back on this realisation and kill my friend. Sorry EDI.


C. Control.

I don't even understand this. Can I control the Reapers to fuck the hell off? Or will I just be in charge of their reapings, fucked if I now.

I can't even argue with this kid and tell him that everything I've discovered leads me to believe synthetic and organic life can coexist peacefully.

[Oshada]

or even the Welsh

Indeed.

The problem(s) I have with the endings is that two of them are(were) the stated goals of two of the main antagonists of the trilogy, which is a bit weird.

[duff]

Indeed.

The problem(s) I have with the endings is that two of them are(were) the stated goals of two of the main antagonists of the trilogy, which is a bit weird.

Well, yes, but I think there is a disconnect between ME1 and the ending of ME3. Saren wanted the Reapers to 'adopt' organics as a way of ensuring survival. As far as I can tell it was not some idealistic fusion of synthetic and organic life that Saren wanted, just survival. If this meant allowing the Reapers to modify organics then so be it. I honestly think the writing team had no idea how they were gonna end the saga when they wrote ME1, or it atleast changed considerably.

This disconnect is also evident in the very nature of the Reapers. When Shepard talks with Sovereign on Virmire, Sovereign basically says that the Reapers' existence is beyond his understanding, "we are each a nation". Now to me this implies that the Reapers are very much individual and independent. Then obviously we learn that the Reapers are just servants of the kid, or whoever the kid represents. It just doesn't fit for me. I think disconnected, rather than angry or sad, is how the ending felt to me.

I mean the very theme of synthetic vs. organic life is only fairly small part of the Mass Effect story, alongside the Rachnii, the Genophage, and the role of humanity and xenophobia. I think you can tell from my post above that I think Bioware handled this theme very well in ME3, the growth of Legion and EDI as characters genuinely touched me in a way that few Bioware characters have done of late. But even then the ending still seemed like a massive curveball to me, with its massive focus on the synthetic / organic theme.

Another point. Why do the Collectors even exist? The kid says he want's to preserve organic life in Reaper form. Protheans, as the unrivaled masters of the previous cycle, are surely absolutely prime specimens for preservation. Yet we don't learn of the existence of a Prothean Reaper. In ME2 it's suggested (by EDI on the collector ship) that the Reapers considered the Protheans unsuitable, this seems fairly incompatible with the explanation given by the wizard kid. The Collectors are nothing but a symbol of the failure of the Cycle. This again makes me feel like the team did not know how ME3 was going to end when ME2 was being made. Then when you decide to go for a twist ending there are gonna be inevitable inconsistencies.

Apologies for the unorganised paragraphs, I just wanted to get my thoughts down.

[soldant]

I honestly think the writing team had no idea how they were gonna end the saga when they wrote ME1, or it atleast changed considerably.

That's the thing with ME1's ending; it allows it to exist as a self-contained game in case there was no interest in a series. When people liked it, they still had the option to expand the game. ME2's ending by comparison seriously suffers because there was definitely going to be a sequel, so there can be no real resolution at all (which had to be saved for the third game).

Sovereign basically says that the Reapers' existence is beyond his understanding, "we are each a nation". Now to me this implies that the Reapers are very much individual and independent.

By "we are each a nation" Sovereign is actually giving away how Reapers are made and explains pretty much all of ME2; the Reapers, or their agents, collect organic species and amalgamate them into a single entity; a Reaper. This is what the Collectors were doing in ME2; collecting humans to infuse into the Reaper. By doing this organics actually "survive" and exist in each Reaper. Thus they are each "a nation" but they aren't necessarily entirely independent. They still answer to the... whatever the kid represents, can't remember now.

Another point. Why do the Collectors even exist?

The Reapers still used organics as indoctrinated servants. You're right that there's a bit of a question as to why the Reapers left the Collectors behind. It's easy to see why they're used by the Reapers but it doesn't explain their presence; the Reapers couldn't have known that they'd have trouble coming back to harvest the galaxy. Their presence seems a bit random, though they do have a clear purpose.

Yet we don't learn of the existence of a Prothean Reaper.

Well, we don't actually know if there is a Prothean Reaper or not. The only Reaper you can identify as having a specific species was the human one we saw at the end of ME2, and ended up destroying. If I recall, the Reaper that looks like its original race is stored in the "cuttlefish" shell (or in the big tank thing or whatever).

This again makes me feel like the team did not know how ME3 was going to end when ME2 was being made. Then when you decide to go for a twist ending there are gonna be inevitable inconsistencies.

I'm fairly sure they had some idea where it was going; once ME1 was a hit it was very, very clear that the series would be a trilogy and it would end in ME3. ME2 deliberately leaves nothing resolved and sets the stage for ME3, so I'd say the team did have an idea of where ME3 was going to go. I haven't read the leaked story, but was it similar to what we got? If not, then I wonder if the leak didn't result in a change of ending. I don't really mind the ending all that much but I agree that the AI is illogical... but the AI holds all the cards, and arguing with it would be like arguing with a dementia patient; they're right even when they're wrong. It does seem like a strange addition and Shepard going up to the AI was a case of deus ex machina.

The weirdest explanation I've heard was that Shepard was actually indoctrinated by the end.

[Hypernetic]

By "we are each a nation" Sovereign is actually giving away how Reapers are made and explains pretty much all of ME2; the Reapers, or their agents, collect organic species and amalgamate them into a single entity; a Reaper. This is what the Collectors were doing in ME2; collecting humans to infuse into the Reaper. By doing this organics actually "survive" and exist in each Reaper. Thus they are each "a nation" but they aren't necessarily entirely independent. They still answer to the... whatever the kid represents, can't remember now.

That whole part of ME makes ZERO sense to me. What do the humans (or w/e race) do for constructing a reaper? As far as we know they literally grind everyone down into paste and then somehow that makes a giant sentient space ship with death lasers. It's not as if they are making some cloud computer out of human minds, they are grinding them down into some kind of ooze. What does that do? If it's just organic material that is needed why does it have to be intelligent races? Why can't they just go to some random dinosaur planet and make giant T-Rex reapers?

Anyway.. .

According to the book before ME2 the collectors have existed for as long as anyone can remember and periodically would appear and broker a deal with some random person, exchanging super advanced alien tech for a few members of a specific species. I suppose they could be doing this to test the genetics of each species in the known galaxy to find out which one (if any) is best suited to being made into a reaper (which still doesn't make sense, the reaper thing).

I honestly think the big disconnect is ME2. If you take out ME2 it eliminates a whole bunch of plot holes in ME3.

[Kadayi]

Well basically the problem is that Hudson & Walters essentially went off the reservation and came up with their own half baked ending without consulting anyone else (thus all the incongruities with the earlier games) rather than sticking to Drew Karpyshyn's original outline for the trilogy which was all based around tackling the problem of 'dark energy', and would of explained the purpose of the human reaper: -

http://www.strategyinformer.com/news...fect-3-endings

There would of been a great moral dilemma at the end, and one that would of made perfect sense, and they blew it.

/facepalm

[c-Row]

I'm a bit late to the party.

So am I - just finished the game yesterday.

While the endings should have been fleshed out a lot more (something the extended edition will hopefully address) I don't understand how people get that much upset about a lack of consequence during the ending from their choices throughout the game. The ending of Mass Effect 1 was just like that. There was no way to bend the story in any other direction or team up with Saren and the Reapers, and the only choice at the ending was to either let or not let the council die, or whom to make the alliance councilor. Same with ME2 - you would always end up on the Collector base, you would always destroy the Reaper, and the only choice you make is to whether or not destroy the base. Even losing team mates during the suicide mission didn't exactly affect this final moment. In every game, you would shape your path through the story but end up at the same point eventually.

I think Shepard would have earned a little rest, settling down with Tali on her home planet, but I don't see why I should damn the whole game for its final moments like the internet asks me to when the whole game is filled with memorable moments, some funny, some heartwarming, some tear inducing. I enjoyed every minute of it.

[deano2099]

There would of been a great moral dilemma at the end, and one that would of made perfect sense, and they blew it.

Despite defending the ending, I do think the dark energy thing would have been better. Problem is that it still wouldn't address most of the criticisms of the ending, it'd be down to two choices, from three, and factoring in the war assets and all the other choices you've made would be equally difficult. I would have preferred it, but it sure as hell wouldn't have stopped 95% of the complaints.

[soldant]

Despite defending the ending, I do think the dark energy thing would have been better. Problem is that it still wouldn't address most of the criticisms of the ending, it'd be down to two choices, from three, and factoring in the war assets and all the other choices you've made would be equally difficult. I would have preferred it, but it sure as hell wouldn't have stopped 95% of the complaints.

Exactly. Most of the complaints are "My choices didn't mean anything" which seems a bit ridiculous to me, as most of the choices weren't particularly important beyond the immediate situation. I can't see how the devs could have reconciled so many different choices or what possible outcomes they could have been.

Also the dark energy thing makes a bit more sense from a storyline perspective, but it doesn't change the fact that it comes down to two choices and stands independent from the rest of your actions. All the other choices go into the War Assets bar. Dark energy ending would not have changed that in the slightest.

[Kadayi]

Despite defending the ending, I do think the dark energy thing would have been better. Problem is that it still wouldn't address most of the criticisms of the ending, it'd be down to two choices, from three, and factoring in the war assets and all the other choices you've made would be equally difficult. I would have preferred it, but it sure as hell wouldn't have stopped 95% of the complaints.

Exactly. Most of the complaints are "My choices didn't mean anything" which seems a bit ridiculous to me, as most of the choices weren't particularly important beyond the immediate situation. I can't see how the devs could have reconciled so many different choices or what possible outcomes they could have been.

Also the dark energy thing makes a bit more sense from a storyline perspective, but it doesn't change the fact that it comes down to two choices and stands independent from the rest of your actions. All the other choices go into the War Assets bar. Dark energy ending would not have changed that in the slightest.

Ok. From an over arching plot line perspective I think the original idea would of made a lot more sense as it tied in with aspects featured in the earlier games. As regards the pay-offs for the decisions you undertook throughout the series, these needed to be better reflected in the final conflict in terms of the lead up to the ending. Fighting along side the Krogans and/or the salarians, having Geth Primes falling in from deep orbit to crush Ravengers, etc. Seeing the Destiny Ascension carving up reapers. Seeing Jack/Samara kicking ass with their biotic powers.

Judging by the comments made at PAX and the announcements regarding the extended cut DLC, it seems we are likely getting the latter, however they are retaining the original endings as they stand. Which seems to me to be a case of simply putting a hat on a pig. It might look a bit better for the hat, but it's still a pig at the end of the day.

[archonsod]

These people are from vastly different cultures and societies, and that's why we need them: for their diversity, the different skills and attributes each race can bring. Javic himself says that the Protheans failed because they lacked the diversity to adapt to the Reaper threat. The supposedly good ending has us erase a huge chunk of our diversity and synthesises us so that we won't destroy each other

It specifically and explicitly states that synthesis modifies DNA to be part synthetic, which is not likely to have much impact on the social and cultural diversity that Javik is talking about (hence why we have multiple cultures on our own planet). It does however add some interesting questions like just how the hell a semi-cybernetic form of DNA would work, but in a universe where people can create black holes with the power of their mind I'm thinking that's just a minor oversight.

The Reapers still used organics as indoctrinated servants. You're right that there's a bit of a question as to why the Reapers left the Collectors behind. It's easy to see why they're used by the Reapers but it doesn't explain their presence; the Reapers couldn't have known that they'd have trouble coming back to harvest the galaxy.

Not really. There's plenty of things you're probably better off using a regular humanoid for rather than a several hundred foot tall death robot. Entering buildings without the inhabitants screaming and attempting to deploy heavy weapons for example. And I'm guessing the paintwork of the death robot probably needs replenishing every couple of millenia or so, tentacles tend to lack that fine motor control needed for such a task.

As far as we know they literally grind everyone down into paste and then somehow that makes a giant sentient space ship with death lasers. It's not as if they are making some cloud computer out of human minds, they are grinding them down into some kind of ooze. What does that do? If it's just organic material that is needed why does it have to be intelligent races? Why can't they just go to some random dinosaur planet and make giant T-Rex reapers?

Because the Reaper is the form in which they preserve intelligent species. Presumably the same methods would work on any other species, but since they're only interested in those which have passed a specific technological level the dinosaurs probably don't get a look in.
Although saying that, you can get the Krogans riding into battle on dinosaurs, so possibly if there's a Krogan reaper out there it might be half T-Rex already.

[soldant]

Not really. There's plenty of things you're probably better off using a regular humanoid for rather than a several hundred foot tall death robot. Entering buildings without the inhabitants screaming and attempting to deploy heavy weapons for example. And I'm guessing the paintwork of the death robot probably needs replenishing every couple of millenia or so, tentacles tend to lack that fine motor control needed for such a task.

They have synthetics too, which they acknowledge as being far superior, so I can't see them using organics for menial tasks. The Keepers make sense as they're designed to open up the Citadel... but the Collectors are there almost as if the Reapers knew that the Keepers would some day fail to respond. But that doesn't canonically make sense, since the Reapers are said not to anticipate that they evolved and fail to respond to the command to activate the Citadel. The Collectors don't really seem to serve a purpose until after ME1, which seems canonically strange.

As for "entering buildings without the inhabitants screaming"... well, that already happens with the Collectors, they're terrorist troops. During an invasion cycle the story says that indoctrinated servants were used to infiltrate but that happens post-invasion, because the modus operandi of the Reapers were to arrive en-mass and start killing. The ME events are unusual and unanticipated by the Reapers.

[Kadayi]

Leaked script for the extended cut: -

http://ferretbrain.com/articles/article-853

EDI (VO): Although of course, even if something were to happen to the Mass Relays, it is important to remember that FTL technology does exist, and my extremely fast AI calculations predict that the overall impact on the galactic economy of the loss of the Mass Relay system would be bearable, and not lead to widespread panic, mass starvation, or the economic collapse of known space.

*chortles*

No doubt Dean will approve this ending ;)