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  1. #781
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoon View Post
    You have way too much faith in Bioware fans.

    They'll slap together an ending with the DLC pack they were already putting out, and people will hail them as saints and all will be forgiven. It happens every time.
    They already said free extended cut with no new ending, just clarification and closure CGI/cutscenes.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post

    If they'd depicted nothing after you sacrificed yourself by any of those three choices. Control, Destruction or Synthesis, you die, game over
    Someone else on Q23 talked about that and I kind of agreed with them it could of been an interesting road to have gone down. Howevber it would of required more explanation as to the outcomes. Also no cutscenes of TIM or Anderson choosing red and blue.
    Last edited by Kadayi; 10-04-2012 at 12:22 AM.
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  2. #782
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    News is making the rounds that the BBB (Better Business Bureau) actually looked into false advertisement because how the ending was.

    http://www.bbb.org/blog/2012/04/mass...tter-or-worse/

    The issue at stake here is, did Bio Ware falsely advertise? Technically, yes, they did. In the first bullet point, where it states “the decisions you make completely shape your experience”, there is no indecision in that statement. It is an absolute. The next statement is not so absolute. It states “your choices drive powerful outcomes”. A consumer would have to very carefully analyze this statement to come to a conclusion that the game’s outcome is not “wholly” determined by one’s choices. This statement, really though, is very subject to interpretation. Also this is just a small example of their advertising and does not take into account anything that might have been said, as far as their public relations and other advertising campaigns.
    And mention a "positive" of Child's Play charity drive. Which, to PennyArcade was not really a positive but more using the charity to get more attention for their plight.

  3. #783
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    News is making the rounds that the BBB (Better Business Bureau) actually looked into false advertisement because how the ending was.
    This pisses me off.

    It pisses me off because it highlights exactly how misguided these fans are. They want Bioware to write better stories. They'll get Bioware to be more tight-lipped and middle-of-the-road for future projects. The lesson Bioware learns here is "don't say anything of substance in advertisements and public announcements." Congratulations, I hope that's all you wanted.
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  4. #784
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    A few further thoughts on the ending:

    On further reflection, I think there's something to the 'rushed' thing. Not in terms of the actual ending, but how it was presented. If Sheen's voiceover recording was pushed back as they weren't sure about it, it strikes me that maybe much of the other VO work was already locked down, which is why we have no companions with us up on the Citadel, just Shep, Anderson, TIM and the Star Child. Also makes more sense that the Star Child is a kid, rather than appearing as Ashley/Kaiden (given that after dreaming about the kid, Shep even says she was thinking about whoever died on Virmire).

    Secondly, I think part of the reason it worked for me is that when we got to the Citadel, Shepard was half-dead. I had no doubts that when we finally made it, when she woke up, things were bad. I bought into that. At that point I knew this won't end well. By the time we reached the Star Child, she was exhausted. The look on her face was one of exhaustion, of sheer defeat. When it turns out there's no easy way to destroy the Reapers, just three choices, none of which are great, there's just a grim acceptance there. That after everything, it comes down to this: choosing the lesser of three evils. She doesn't argue with the Catalyst, point out that we can, in fact, all get along, because she doesn't have another great speech in her. She's just fed up, she's tired and she wants it to be over.

    The bit with the Normandy and Joker at the end doesn't make much sense in retrospect, but at the time and to me, it added a note of hope to an unrelentingly bleak ending.

    I'm not really offering this as a defense of the ending, I know it was flawed, but I was trying to pick apart why, even knowing it that, it worked for me in the moment. That's how I read it at the time.

  5. #785
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    deano - I'm with you there. It's like Shepard was half sedated at the end, it was almost uncomfortable to play. I think this is one of the reasons the indoctrination theory is so popular. But like you I think it was just rushed last minute, it's already been revealed that Martin Sheen's sessions had to be moved back to the last minute.

  6. #786
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    Huh? No, they made it up as they went along. The scratchpad for the ending bit even had "lots of speculation for EVERYONE!" scribbled down at the bottom. And they went with it.

  7. #787
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    So, having just finished the game, I have to say that my problem with the ending is that it doesn't really happen. The reapers wandered off, the Normandy crashed (including random appearance of Garrus), all the mass relays exploded. That's not an ending. That's the beginning of an ending.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  8. #788
    Lesser Hivemind Node westyfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    It's like Shepard was half sedated at the end, it was almost uncomfortable to play.
    I found the same. When Shepard staggered up after getting blasted by Harbinger, then got shot by Marauder Shields (RIP), I gasped and murmured "oh shit". Then as she lay next to Anderson clutching her abdomen with blood seeping out I was squirming in my seat. It's to Bioware's credit that they've made me like Shepard so much that her suffering made me so uncomfortable. Same with the start of Mass Effect 2 - as Shepard struggled to breathe I was feeling awful as well. I always expected Shepard to die at the end of ME3, I just didn't expect it to be so... traumatic.

  9. #789
    Lesser Hivemind Node DigitalSignalX's Avatar
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    These are my two favorite images this week



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  10. #790
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Yeah the Tali thing was terrible, but it was greatly overshadowed by the piece of shit ending.

  11. #791
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ian's Avatar
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    Hadn't seen about that Tali thing. That's pretty poor.

    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    The bit with the Normandy and Joker at the end doesn't make much sense in retrospect, but at the time and to me, it added a note of hope to an unrelentingly bleak ending.
    As with many others, this was too jarring for me as one of the people who got off (I think it was Javik) was with me trying to get to the beam. Naturally I wondered about it in general and recognised that it was meant to be a light note but all I could do was wonder why he was there.
    Last edited by Ian; 16-04-2012 at 12:20 PM.
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  12. #792
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    As with many others, this was too jarring for me as one of the people who got off (I think it was Javik) was with me trying to get to the beam. Naturally I wondered about it in general and recognised that it was meant to be a light note but all I could do was wonder why he was there.
    I had that with Liara, but was just "awesome, they managed to get out alive".

    Not sure on the problem with the whole Tali thing either, I mean, that's what stock images are for isn't it? Were they meant to go out and photograph someone themselves or do a drawing from scratch for a single photo that a tiny number of people will actually see?

  13. #793
    Lesser Hivemind Node westyfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    As with many others, this was too jarring for me as one of the people who got off (I think it was Javik) was with me trying to get to the beam. Naturally I wondered about it in general and recognised that it was meant to be a light note but all I could do was wonder why he was there.
    I had Joker, Liara, and Javik step out of the Normandy. Liara had been with me on the ground, I assumed Shepard was unconscious for quite a while after getting lasered, such that everyone thought she was dead and decided to retreat to the Normandy.
    I found it more annoying that Javik got out to be honest - I hated that guy. Apparently it's to do with how often you talk to them, which would make sense because Javik has a lot more to say than any other characters.

  14. #794
    Network Hub desvergeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    As with many others, this was too jarring for me as one of the people who got off (I think it was Javik) was with me trying to get to the beam. Naturally I wondered about it in general and recognised that it was meant to be a light note but all I could do was wonder why he was there.
    This is pretty much my entire problem with the ending.

    Bleakness... fine, last minute twist and deus ex... unfortunately standard fare for game plots, sloppy writing leading to big plotholes... unacceptable.

    I'm thinking bits like your squadmates being on the Normandy were just thrown in there, without anyone at Bioware realising how much it introduces plotholes, ie how come your squad survived the reaper beam, but didn't bother jumping through the teleporter to the crucible. Likewise Tali and Garrus surviving and getting off the ship, no-one thought about how they wouldn't have anything to eat, and will hence just starve to death.


    Furthermore, a lot of the evidence supporting the Indoc Theory is definitely there in the game, but the alternative explanation is that the release was looming and Bioware were just extremely sloppy.

    My personal feeling is that Bioware were going for an indoctrination twist and then a real ending (all on-disc), ran out of time, chopped the indoctrination twist, but leaving a load of the build-up hints still in. Things like Vega commenting on the hum, the format of the dreams, the structure of the crucible (human writing, aspects of collector base and shadow broker ship).


    Personally I would be really interested to find out what went down in the writing room as the game release approached. I would love to hear an honest opinion from the writers as to whether this is the ending they were going for, or if the ending was compromised in some way by other pressures.

  15. #795
    Network Hub desvergeh's Avatar
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    Oh one other thing I was confused about near the end of ME3 -

    The other Alliance command guy who is with Anderson when you find him on Earth. Can't remember the character name, but it was odd that this guy had a particular name. This extra was only in the last 30 minutes of the game, yet he had a distinctive voice actor, character name, and was making tactical decisions about the battle.

    Just seemed a little odd to me, like he was being put in there as an extra squad choice, or something to do with DLC or something. Did the majority of his role get cut due to time? Or is he a cameo from one of the books?

  16. #796
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    He's the guy from the CGI trailer, in big ben

  17. #797
    Network Hub desvergeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyrieee View Post
    He's the guy from the CGI trailer, in big ben
    Thought he might be. But that is all? Seemed to be focused on a fair bit for so little importance. Half-wondering if he is being built up as the next protagonist.

  18. #798
    Lesser Hivemind Node westyfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desvergeh View Post
    Thought he might be. But that is all? Seemed to be focused on a fair bit for so little importance. Half-wondering if he is being built up as the next protagonist.
    He mentions being holed up in the clock tower for a while. There don't seem to be any other references to him in the rest of the game or the books. I'd say either he was meant to be a bigger character and they ran out of time, or as you suggest he's being established ready for a spin-off.

  19. #799
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Not sure on the problem with the whole Tali thing either, I mean, that's what stock images are for isn't it? Were they meant to go out and photograph someone themselves or do a drawing from scratch for a single photo that a tiny number of people will actually see?
    My view on the Tali thing is that it would have been better not to have done it at all than to do a botch job. Bioware should have been well aware of the importance of the reveal, and to just do a quick photoshop of a stock image seems baffling. Stock images are fine for inspiration but for a developer that has a massive staff of artists and graphical designers, it's just lazy to not put more time into it. If they didn't want to waste time on it, they should have just go on to Deviant Art, which has thousands of (far better) Tali portraits all ready to go.

  20. #800
    Lesser Hivemind Node westyfield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kandon Arc View Post
    My view on the Tali thing is that it would have been better not to have done it at all than to do a botch job. Bioware should have been well aware of the importance of the reveal, and to just do a quick photoshop of a stock image seems baffling. Stock images are fine for inspiration but for a developer that has a massive staff of artists and graphical designers, it's just lazy to not put more time into it. If they didn't want to waste time on it, they should have just go on to Deviant Art, which has thousands of (far better) Tali portraits all ready to go.
    Aside from the stock image thing, it's also a really crappy way to show her face. A photo on a desk? Really? I saw one person suggest that her face should only be revealed if she kills herself - when she removes her mask, you should see it for a split second, but upside-down as she falls backwards.

    Though to be honest, there was no way Bioware could ever satisfy the Tali superfans. One look at the (frankly terifying) Tali's Face thread on the Bioware forum is all you need to see how dedicated they are.

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