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03-05-2012, 02:01 AM #881
- Join Date
- Jan 2012
I still think that the nerd rage is justified. The ending, particularly that "the created will always rebel against the creators" line, is nonsensical. But even if you dispute that, it pisses all over plot details that people who have been really involved will care about. The Geth turn out to be nice. EDI turns out to be nice. The Arrival DLC says that blowing up a Mass Relay wipes out the system it resides in. And... well, there's a magical child who tells you that all the things trying to kill you have been doing so for your own good.
Again, the more you've played of Mass Effect, the more reasons they give you to hate the ending.
Further example: there's that thing in 'The Final Hours of Mass Effect 3' where they've circled "lots of speculation for everyone!". It's like they're saying "We don't know, why don't YOU decide? Answers on a postcard to the usual address". That's not a good ending to any story.
03-05-2012, 02:03 AM #882
03-05-2012, 02:15 AM #883
But certainly, suggesting that it will provide 'lots of speculation' is a poor reason for an uncertain ending. Any kind of ending will provide an audience with some basis for speculation - even if you give some kind of epilogue, it's not going to be enough for a devoted fan. They will theorise plenty about what could of happened next.
03-05-2012, 02:23 AM #884
hrm. just looked at a wiki summary of the fall of hyperion. dan simmons did indeed do an epilogue to it. My memory plays tricks. pah.
07-05-2012, 11:41 AM #885
Well, I just finished ME3 at last. Have to admit that I loved it. I had been avoiding spoilers so I am not initmately acquainted with this thread I am afraid but I can see why people might not have liked some of what happened. But really, the biggest flaws that I can see are the exact same flaws as those in the entire series since the start of ME2, namely that the behaviour of The Reapers makes virtually no sense.
Certainly, depending how you play the game, you have enough evidence to decide that synthetic will not necessarily rebel. But really? My interpretation in that the race or being who created the reapers would in no way be able to face their actions if they ever accepted that their "inevitable scenario" was not at all inevitable.
I think Mordin's character is the indication of this. His behaviour mirrored that of the catalyst - he could never accept the possibility that the genophage might not have been necessary. Even as he prepares to give his life he cannot face even that possibility. The implications would be overwhelming. Likewise for the catalyst. And so, yes, his justifications do not hold up. But I suspect that they were never supposed to.
07-05-2012, 01:39 PM #886
07-05-2012, 04:47 PM #887
07-05-2012, 04:50 PM #888
07-05-2012, 05:29 PM #889
07-05-2012, 05:46 PM #890
07-05-2012, 06:13 PM #891
08-05-2012, 09:32 AM #892
Thanks, Kad that's pretty interesting info. I have to admit that knowing that does immediately throw the thing in a different light: Firstly, it's legitimately disappointing for people to know that the story has not ended as intended by the creator. The same thing happens in films quite a lot and is no less annoying. I guess it is a case of ignorance is bliss though - sometimes the new storyline might be better.
Secondly, it highlights for me that this new writer does immediately obsess a lot more about the whole synthetics overthrowing their creators angle. I mean, Legion & Tali's storylines both revolve around that, Javik REALLY goes on about it, the entire illusive man arc is about that, EDI and obviously the end. It sort of taints the whole game but is virtually unrelated to ME1 & 2 where the angle was extremely minor to the point that I would say not significant. ME3's obsessions does seem a bit left field.
Having said that, the original storyline as you describe does sound a little bit too typically Bioware. Given that original intent, however, the "Synthetics are the true enemy" angle does seem a little too straight forward. That matter had already been tackled entirely adequately - better than adequately even, by the Quarian/Geth conflict where whichever way you handled it, you had already resolved it. You'd made your conclusions. In fact, my final decision was very easy as I had already made my own conclusions on synthetic life half a game earlier.
Is there anywhere in particular I can find more detail about the original ending do you know? Sounds interesting at least.
08-05-2012, 06:26 PM #893
Would it not have made more sense for the "entity" to appear as whoever died on Virmire? The reapers would actually know about that since the Geth were there.
Either way, the whole thing with the kid makes zero sense.
08-05-2012, 06:44 PM #894
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
I guess knowing the parts of Mass Effect I enjoyed the most came from the mind of DrewKarpyshynI am now far more interested in whatever he does now he has left Bioware than whatever they do.
I really wish they had stuck to his ending while it was by no means earth shattering it did at least shed the Reapers in an interesting light and explain past plot holes rather than creating multitudes of them.
Last edited by goatmonkey; 23-06-2012 at 11:21 AM.
08-05-2012, 06:53 PM #895
I mean, seriously, we're talking millions of years of technological dominance. It's not like we're version 1.2 and they're version 1.4. We're still scratching our heads over logic boards and they've outpaced biology.
08-05-2012, 07:08 PM #896
As for how advanced they are, they really aren't that advanced. For a civilization that has been around for (possibly) millions of years (all we really know is that they existed at least one cycle before the Protheans) they should appear to be Gods. Instead they utilize similar technology to us and indeed took hundreds of years to eradicate the Protheans. One would assume that a super advanced civilization who's sole purpose is to exterminate entire galactic civilizations would do a better job. If they have been around for millions of years they should have wiped out the current cycle in minutes.
In fact, their entire methodology is inefficient and illogical from a machine intelligence stand point.
08-05-2012, 07:32 PM #897
Personally I prefer the dark energy outline because neither outcome requires the waving of a magic wand. It's a decision that is reliant either on allowing the reapers to carry out their grizzly task, or choosing not to and facing an uncertain future. No need for Ghost babies, destruction of mass relays, undermining of all that you've achieved or massive amounts of suspension of disbelief as with the Synthesis ending. To quote the guy in the nerd rage video it's 'talkie techie Sci-fi' which is exactly what the series roots itself in during the first couple of games.
08-05-2012, 09:56 PM #898
I particularly liked Drew K's references to the Reapers as twisted nations. In his version of things, perhaps their solution could be viewed as the best course. In effect, all those hundreds of thousands of individuals who are invested into the Reaper could live forever. The species wouldn't die out but really ascend.
Would have been nice to see that sort of thing expanded upon.
I think I would have preferred Drew to stay on just for the fact that I reckon the whole thing would have been more consistent in general. And the Dark energy threat I will grant you is actually more interesting than the racism morally unambiguous synthetics thing
Also, on the topic of the ghost kid - that's the sort of story telling by implication that doesn't need spelling out. It is blatantly obvious that the catalyst can interact with Shep's mind in some form simply because that is happening and we have been privy to his dreams and that is all you need to know. I think going to the effort of explaining it would have been a bit patronising.
09-05-2012, 12:01 AM #899
Thanks for that Kadayi.
Seems like the story component of ME2 had essentially zero bearing on ME3 then. (really though, that human reaper was pretty dumb.)
One other question in case anyone feels like fielding it: at the end of ME1 we stranded the reapers in dark space by closing off the citadel relay. So, how exactly did they get back? Were they just held up those couple years in transit? If that's all it makes most of the plot of ME1 a bit pointless as well.
09-05-2012, 12:38 AM #900