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  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    You basically have two choices here:
    - play the game windowed at 1024x720, which is likely about half of your total screen space
    - stretch it either way(or both ways in the case of fullscreen) since resolution of 1024x720 doesn't exist natively and make it look like complete ass
    - assuming stretching it is even an option and it won't mess up UI elements and such
    Others have said about it not being a fixed res, but if it actually was only capable of being displayed at 1024x720 you would also have the option of maintaining aspect ratio, a setting normally in your video card settings. It gives you the black bars on the side, but is far more preferable to the butt ugly stretching that happens when making a non-widescreen game (or video) widescreen.

    So, how does the up scaling work? Will widescreen resolutions look stretched?

    I'm kind of conflicted with this one; on the one hand I'm pleased they listened to the demand and want to encourage further multi-platform projects on franchises that don't necessarily get them. The game also sounds awesome and an expirement I want to see continued. At the same time I do not want to help encourage companies to do half-arsed jobs (I don't think that is the case here, but others might see it as justification.)

    Definitely waiting on reviews.

  2. #242
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    If the console version doesn't look stretched, why would the PC version?

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKicksalot View Post
    If the console version doesn't look stretched, why would the PC version?
    All screenshots of the game I could find on GIS were proper 720p. I've no idea where the 1024x720 came from.

  4. #244
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Probably a typo. Someone did exactly what I did: They mixed 1024x768 with 1280x720. But they did it first :p

    And quit the frothing rampage. I am not "excusing" it based on older games. I am just saying: You can easily recreate this for yourself (mostly) and see that it isn't a huge deal. Again, it is disappointing,. but it doesn't look horrid.

    Or, you know, remember that people have already looked at this on TVs.

    And the whole "It is tolerable on a TV, not a monitor" is crap if you ask me. A TV is (usually) a bigger display than your monitor. So while your monitor has a higher resolution, the "image" is stretched even more on the TV. It isn't a perfect comparison, but if it doesn't murder people there, it won't murder people on your monitor.

    Plus, you know, I am sure nobody here has EVER watched a downloaded movie or TV show (or instructional lecture, of course :p) at 720 or even 480 on their monitor. I mean, the world would end if someone had fullscreened that and not died, right? :p
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  5. #245
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    I'm a little confused gundato. Your final paragraph makes no sense to me.

  6. #246
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khaz View Post
    I'm a little confused gundato. Your final paragraph makes no sense to me.
    My point is that many online videos (again, all the legal kinds that are about intellectual pursuits) tend to come in 720p as HD (because 1080p makes a much bigger file). If you have ever hit the maximize button or fullscreened that, you basically have proven that upscaled 720p isn't that bad on a computer monitor, contrary to what some people are believing.

    The rest was just me being a jackass :p
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  7. #247
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    Well if they really did write 1024x720 while it's really 1280x720 then didn't we just went apeshit over nothing, wow.

  8. #248
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    The console versions are natively rendered at 1024x720 with 2AA and that's unchanged for PC. There are tons of console games rendered at such resolutions. I know some of them appear slightly stretched (Crysis 2 PS3!) but I didn't hear anything about Dark Souls looking odd. I guess it's a question of scaling algorithms?

  9. #249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    720p is 1280x720, a standard(because all HD TVs use it so by extension, all the consoles) 16:9 resolution. 1024x720 is nonexistant. It's not even a ratio; it's not 4:3, not 5:4, not 16:9 or 16:10.

    Now think what will happen when you put that 1024x720 into a standard 16:9 monitor with resolution of 19201080. You'll get pixels with proportions of 1.875 to 1.5, or not square, which means it will look like a stretched ass. Or, if you want to preserve aspect ratio, you will play with black bars on both sides; almost like putting 4:3 in your 16:9 screen.

    Either way, it's garbage.
    No.

    First: there are screenshots, go take a look. Just y'know, open one of the articles you're commenting on, just for a second. Do they look stretched? Nope. Hmm.

    The console versions rendered at 1024x720 too. Did they look stretched? Nope. Hmm. What could possibly be going on?

    Well the image being rendered is squashed, so when it gets stretched it looks right. Magic.

  10. #250
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    Well after the positive write up on RPS today I decided to pre-order this. Not too fussy about GFWL or the technical aspects tbh, more concerned about the difficulty aspect. It sounds very much like it's a case of judicious planning and tactics and that has some appeal.

  11. #251
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    Well after the positive write up on RPS today I decided to pre-order this. Not too fussy about GFWL or the technical aspects tbh, more concerned about the difficulty aspect. It sounds very much like it's a case of judicious planning and tactics and that has some appeal.
    Based on my experiencie with single player Demon's Souls, it's more a case of taking it easy and learning the layout and enemies of the area, and in the case of the bosses, learning their attack patterns and how to avoid damage, and the best moment to strike.

  12. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    Based on my experiencie with single player Demon's Souls, it's more a case of taking it easy and learning the layout and enemies of the area, and in the case of the bosses, learning their attack patterns and how to avoid damage, and the best moment to strike.
    Heh I'm expecting to die a lot, but the dying is serving the purpose of informing eventual victory.

  13. #253
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    Mmm... I'm torn. I really liked Demon's Souls and was looking forward to the PC version of Dark Souls, but this resolution thing is kind of ruining my excitement. I was ready for GfWL and capped framerates, but this made the game go from "day 1" to "Steam sale" for me.

    Plus, it's well-known the developers were having problems with the porting process due to their lack of experience so who knows how buggy and poorly optimized the game is going to be.

    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    And the whole "It is tolerable on a TV, not a monitor" is crap if you ask me. A TV is (usually) a bigger display than your monitor. So while your monitor has a higher resolution, the "image" is stretched even more on the TV.
    TVs have better built-in upscalers than PC monitors and both the 360 and the PS3 also have internal scaling tech to make low-res games look better on high-res displays. It wouldn't surprise me if the PS3 version ended up looking less blurry than the PC one, but we'll see.

  14. #254
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buemba View Post
    TVs have better built-in upscalers than PC monitors and both the 360 and the PS3 also have internal scaling tech to make low-res games look better on high-res displays. It wouldn't surprise me if the PS3 version ended up looking less blurry than the PC one, but we'll see.
    And most modern GPUs (I would say all, but someone will call me out :p) have a built in upscaler that works fairly well in my experience of playing older games.
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  15. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    My point is that many online videos (again, all the legal kinds that are about intellectual pursuits) tend to come in 720p as HD (because 1080p makes a much bigger file). If you have ever hit the maximize button or fullscreened that, you basically have proven that upscaled 720p isn't that bad on a computer monitor, contrary to what some people are believing.
    You are comparing the effects of upscaling digitized video and upscaling a simple render of a simple environment with little or no antialiasing. (Hint: one of these looks smudgy and terrible when scaled, the other not nearly as much.) Plus there is the interactive vs non-interactive thing. Which, admittedly, has more to do with why 30Hz lock is bad than why a bad resolution is bad.

    If DS was even rendering at actual 720p, that would still be awful for a PC game, but at least it could show its low-res assets unsmudged as long as it was played with a 720p or 1440p display. 1024x720 rendering resolution in a PC game is fucking terrible quality.

  16. #256
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by victory View Post
    You are comparing the effects of upscaling digitized video and upscaling a simple render of a simple environment with little or no antialiasing. (Hint: one of these looks smudgy and terrible when scaled, the other not nearly as much.) Plus there is the interactive vs non-interactive thing. Which, admittedly, has more to do with why 30Hz lock is bad than why a bad resolution is bad.

    If DS was even rendering at actual 720p, that would still be awful for a PC game, but at least it could show its low-res assets unsmudged as long as it was played with a 720p or 1440p display. 1024x720 rendering resolution in a PC game is fucking terrible quality.
    Except that it isn't.

    Look, the framerate issue is already "it affects magic PC gamers, not console gamers and most PC gamers"

    And apparently it is going to upscale the same way console games do, so no problems there.
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  17. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Well the image being rendered is squashed, so when it gets stretched it looks right. Magic.
    Putting aside the fact that it's an amazingly retarded way of doing things, 1280 is 125% of 1024. So you render a picture squashed horizontally by 80%, throw it at the monitor which stretches it by 125% and get a 100%, normal looking image.

    1920 is 187.5% of 1024. So you render a picture squashed horizontally 80%, throw it at the monitor which stretches it by 187.5%, and end up with a stretched 150% image.

    Screenshots aren't a proof, since RPS cuts and crops almost all of them. And they often don't even use their own, just whatever they find on the internets.

  18. #258
    Lesser Hivemind Node Henke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    1920 is 187.5% of 1024. So you render a picture squashed horizontally 80%, throw it at the monitor which stretches it by 187.5%, and end up with a stretched 150% image.
    If you have a 1920 resolution surely it gets stretched on the height as well, from 720 to 1200. So it's not like it'll look wider than it should.

    Anyway, maybe we should just wait for some reviews and screenshots to get to see how it looks instead of speculating. The game looked fine on 360 and I'm sure it'll look alright on PC as well.

  19. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Except that it isn't.
    So you are sticking to your guns and claiming 1024x720 @ 30Hz is not bad for a PC game. Even the games I play on console run at 60Hz! Fighters, shooters, brawlers, platformers etc. Most of them run at real 720p with AA. On the PC, I always play in native resolution; when I can't (I have an older PC) I wait until I have a PC strong enough to run without smudging.

    Look, the framerate issue is already "it affects magic PC gamers, not console gamers and most PC gamers"
    There may have been some truth to that back when we assumed the game would be a reasonable port and render in native resolution like every other game. But since it is now revealed to be locked to 1024x720, any PC with discrete graphics from the last ~4 years should be able to run it at around 60 FPS. Newer machines could probably do 120 FPS. Provided the quality of the coding was not shit.
    And apparently it is going to upscale the same way console games do, so no problems there.
    You mean, no problems as long as your standards of quality are low enough. Which is pretty much a tautology and therefore not worth saying in the first place.

    It is a problem for me if a game only bothers to render less than every fifth pixel on the highest res PC screens currently used by gamers, then stretches them like Mr. Goatse, without even compensating with increased model and effect quality.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Putting aside the fact that it's an amazingly retarded way of doing things, 1280 is 125% of 1024. So you render a picture squashed horizontally by 80%, throw it at the monitor which stretches it by 125% and get a 100%, normal looking image.
    While it's retarded on a PC, it's not in the context of weak console hardware. When you are hugely power constrained, it's often more important to improve model quality and effects than to improve resolution. The technique made even more sense back in CRT times when, due to the display technology, you couldn't really see the smudging.

    Of course there are better and worse renditions of that technique. One game I remember where the devs really got it and tried hard was Killzone 3 on the PS3; IIRC they actually had the game render at 1280x720 when the console was outputting 720p, and render at 960x1080 when the console was outputting 1080p, which scales to 1080p much better than 720p. They also didn't just change the rendering buffer size, but very slightly adjusted effects to compensate for the framerate drop.

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