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  1. #1
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    Quake Live on Steam -> Casualized or just a better game now?

    So Quake Live recently released on Steam, made some controversial changes like hold space to bunny hop, power-up timers to make the invisible war over powers-ups visible.

    There seems to be a very good reception by newer less competitive players, while some veterans have just been rambling and raging.

    Did it work however? Is the game more fun? Most importantly are people actually playing it again?

    From my region so far, that answer seems to be yes.

  2. #2
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    Are you seriously asking whether Quake of all things is "casualized"? Short of an aimbot, I don't see how you'd make Quake casual.

    The furore has been over a new ruleset (which is optional) that adds a few quality of life features for new players. All it's shown is that the hardcore Quake community doesn't seem to like change, like every hardcore community ever.

  3. #3
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    Filthy other people have touched my game, now it's all covered in plebeian germs...

  4. #4
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    The furore has been over a new ruleset (which is optional) that adds a few quality of life features for new players. All it's shown is that the hardcore Quake community doesn't seem to like change, like every hardcore community ever.
    That.

    There's a bunch of things meant to help newcomers such as pick up timers etc, which is fine, and stuff that feels a bit meh for reasons. Generally arenas stop to be fun when there's no way to control maps through pick ups and the game doesn't stop, leaving newbs in their doom. Getting a decent starting weapon gives a chance to come back to respawned players - the machinegun provides nothing other then bothering with others' momentum.
    Other than building a new community on steam, loadouts are there because changing the primary weapon to something ok means massive design changes to maps and weapons that are not worth anymore. Considering the duel mode stays the same the game hasn't improved as a whole; at least some people may grow an appreciation of some thinky parts.



    Also you still got Reflex and Project Free Fall (once the new tech build is actually done). Both of them look at cpma stuff as influence.
    Last edited by Wenz; 18-09-2014 at 05:48 PM.
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  5. #5
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    The changes seem primarily targeted at raising the skill floor rather than lowering the skill ceiling, so I'm ok with them (though that assumes some/all of the changes will be disabled for actual competitive play). I don't particularly like the loadouts, but hopefully there'll be enough servers without it that I can still have fun.

  6. #6
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    Filthy other people have touched my game, now it's all covered in plebeian germs...
    Imagine you're playing Chess(TM) EA Origin Edition (the only legal edition in year 2032, EA bought rights for Chess, hence trademark sign).
    Now some pesky CEO say to dev team: Devteam! We need more $$$! We need bring more people to Chess(TM)! The rules are too complicated. Let's take a knight. It have an idiotic moveset. It's too complicated! The casuals will never ever learn how to use it, so they will never give us their $$$! Let's make it move only in straight lines, it's easier to remember and operate! And after that we will change...

    It's stupid. These changes are taking away depth from gameplay. People playing Quake few years have all rights to be angry. Yeah, I KNOW that you can set up server with old rules.

  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Honestly this means you won't see quakelive 2 for a long time.
    Just the same game with either fine or meaningless updates. Not bad because they are going cautious, but still..


    Deathmatch is "casual" stuff and it is even more now but duel is still there. Make what you want of it
    Last edited by Wenz; 18-09-2014 at 05:27 PM.
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  8. #8
    Network Hub Memph's Avatar
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    I played some CA, CTF and Freeze Tag last night for 4 hours, for the first time in about a decade. I used to play quite religiously with the official Q3A community and it still feels like Quake 3 Arena to me, in that it's fast, frantic and if you don't know how to strafe-jump, rocket-jump and all that snazzy stuff, you're going to have a rough time, no matter what weapons you drop in with. Loadouts let you spawn with 2 weapons, from 2 groups of primary and secondary choices - so there's no spawning with rockets AND a rail and ready to splash-bounce people into oblivion. They also get minimal ammunition - 5 shots with the RL for example - enough to defend yourself to get back into play, but nowhere near enough to spawn and start spamming all and sundry from behind, as some would believe. If you spawned near anyone with a machinegun in vanilla, you were simply dead - pretty much why I found CA more fun that most other modes originally, as it was completely fair and never one guy dominating simply because he was first to the rail-gun. It may make it more difficult for the 'the greatest player that there is' on any particular server to completely dominate the lesser skilled, but makes the game no less fun for anyone else. It's hardly that noone even needs to collect weapons and pickups at all anymore.

    I've been told the QL team is small, at around 4-5 people, so any changes and updates will not come thick and fast, not unless the numbers stay up anyway, but it's still as free as any F2P game gets - you only need subscribe if you want to personally host servers and even then, only one person out of a group need do it. Apparently the Steam release did bring a huge influx of players, so hopefully those complaining don't scare everyone off from what is still the grand-master daddy of smooth, completely skill-based and oh-so satisfying to master FPS arena shooty. It could be argued to be a little less pure, with the (non-mandatory) accessibility changes in play, but anyone not making actual coin by playing are overreacting to claim the game outright 'ruined'. The game needs popularity to warrant supporting, so it's quite ironic that it's those who claim to love the game, being the ones with many of the ridiculous 'game is ruined', 'it's raining casuals' posts all over the place in a crusading effort to kill the game off completely, when if they liked it that much, they'd be a subscriber with all the options to render their entire reasoning for complaint moot.

    Thanks to Steam's community features, I tend to neglect games that aren't on there, so it was lovely to get the reminder that this still existed. I'm happy to ignore the naysayers, especially on Steam's forums as most of them are just common or garden child-minded, gob-slobbering trolls acting 'pro' and claiming maturity whilst whining about 'casuals', yet their actual gaming profile of foul comments and badge collection speaks of them loudly otherwise. I can understand some dismay from 'actual' high level players, but there's no cause for outrage or banner-waving protests from the general population over it whatsoever.
    Last edited by Memph; 18-09-2014 at 06:28 PM. Reason: chris,t i cannot typ.e

  9. #9
    Network Hub Memph's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmh View Post
    The changes seem primarily targeted at raising the skill floor rather than lowering the skill ceiling
    Marvellously put. That's exactly how it feels.

  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    Imagine you're playing Chess(TM) EA Origin Edition (the only legal edition in year 2032, EA bought rights for Chess, hence trademark sign).
    Now some pesky CEO say to dev team: Devteam! We need more $$$! We need bring more people to Chess(TM)! The rules are too complicated. Let's take a knight. It have an idiotic moveset. It's too complicated! The casuals will never ever learn how to use it, so they will never give us their $$$! Let's make it move only in straight lines, it's easier to remember and operate! And after that we will change...

    It's stupid. These changes are taking away depth from gameplay. People playing Quake few years have all rights to be angry. Yeah, I KNOW that you can set up server with old rules.
    You know, I think there's a CS mod where weapons run out after 1 kill, kinda like chess pieces when eaten, till the melee weapon is the only thing left. Sounds cool for a 10 minutes match.
    Last edited by Wenz; 18-09-2014 at 06:15 PM.
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  11. #11
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GameCat View Post
    Imagine you're playing Chess(TM) EA Origin Edition (the only legal edition in year 2032, EA bought rights for Chess, hence trademark sign).
    Now some pesky CEO say to dev team: Devteam! We need more $$$! We need bring more people to Chess(TM)! The rules are too complicated. Let's take a knight. It have an idiotic moveset. It's too complicated! The casuals will never ever learn how to use it, so they will never give us their $$$! Let's make it move only in straight lines, it's easier to remember and operate! And after that we will change...

    It's stupid. These changes are taking away depth from gameplay. People playing Quake few years have all rights to be angry. Yeah, I KNOW that you can set up server with old rules.
    And if I happen to want to play Chess with my friend, I'll just grab the board and play like I've always used to play. The filthy plebeians can play it their way, or some other way, and I'm not bothered. Win-win!

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velko View Post
    And if I happen to want to play Chess with my friend, I'll just grab the board and play like I've always used to play. The filthy plebeians can play it their way, or some other way, and I'm not bothered. Win-win!
    But how dare​ they play any way but mine, which is obviously the correct way?

  13. #13
    Network Hub Memph's Avatar
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    What's more to the point is that Chess is not a franchise and needs the ficticious setting for the argument to work. Any chump can make and/or sell a chess board.

  14. #14
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Well classic way is the best designed one or it would be, compared to numode, if 3/4 of the weaponry wasn't shite
    Last edited by Wenz; 18-09-2014 at 09:26 PM.
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  15. #15
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    certain modes are completely ruined and have strayed way too far off from the original design

    it isn't about casual vs pro, but rather that the game is no longer quake 3 - and among people who understand it even a little bit it's much much worse

    autohopping? don't care
    revealing item locations on the map? good
    helping newbs play actual quake? don't care

    loadouts? no ammo boxes? automatic item timers? completely kill the game

  16. #16
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    I don't mind item timers but I don't like the Quad Damage icon and such being shown through walls as it spawns.
    Universal ammo is a crime against nature. It fucks with the flow of the game. To a lesser extent, loadouts do the same thing.
    The new weapon is crap. The lighting gun was far from my favourite - now it does less damage so I like it even less.
    The new announcer is awful, but I understand the need for it.

    On the other hand, the core action is as good as ever. I just wish they put other things behind a paywall instead of the classic servers.

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Wenz's Avatar
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    Yeah there was no need for the heavy machine gun.* Now it's 4 variants of the same weapon.
    Most of the news are meant to build a new fanbase and cannibalization is everyone's fear but only time will tell (besides there are some cool party arenas in the making).





    *along to a bunch of things that are meaningless or borderline wrong and didn't need to change. dev's don't care and there little reasonfor people to care about the game (private servers will be flooded)





    I agree on most complaints but part of the update still feels like patching original design lackings even though it's a poor attempt.
    And revealing item location is arguably bad because speed isn't just about movement but the direction it's put, suddendly knowing the map and stealth grabs aren't rewarded anymore.
    Loadouts suck for sure
    Last edited by Wenz; Yesterday at 10:21 AM.
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  18. #18
    Lesser Hivemind Node Spacewalk's Avatar
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    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

  19. #19
    Curious to know what people think of the auto bunnyhop? Good, bad?

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    The mechanical changes aren't the issue; locking maps and modes behind a subscription paywall is. If it was a one-time payment I don't think I'd mind, but I already own Q3A and that has all the mods and custom maps I could ever want. Just a shame nobody plays it anymore.

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