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  1. #1221
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    PS: forgot about this:

    Quote Originally Posted by echoMateria View Post
    The Steam community page counts you games + tools.
    And yet, why would that count change over time ? without me buying games or redeeming keys? going down, too?

    FTR y all games count from the steam client is 189 and tool count 56 versus 249 from steamcommunity. Even free weekends won't explain the difference.
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  2. #1222
    Lesser Hivemind Node DevinSmoth's Avatar
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    the rest couldn't give a flying, migratory, fuck for a game that Mr. "I have been doing this for a long time, trust me" McMillen couldn't even bother to have ported over from Flash.


    Isn't he doing this right now?

  3. #1223
    Lesser Hivemind Node Juan Carlo's Avatar
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    IT is kind of sad that Humblebundle is returning to the McMillen well once more, though. There are a thousand other indie developers who could use some of the attention. Why offer "ISaac" yet again when they've already offered it in the past (along with Meatboy and Gish, several times each, it seems)?

  4. #1224
    Network Hub Avish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by echoMateria View Post
    (snip)...
    For example the complaints regarding its combat system are as meaningless as saying RTS games play better than Chess. This comes from misunderstanding the game in a big way. Grimlock and the games it is based on aren't about the thrilling combat experience that would make even the best action RPGs run for their money, it never was. Its like saying the combat wasn't really satisfying in Portal... This genre is about figuring your way out of these mazes you have been thrown into. Figuring out the puzzles, finding all the secrets you can. Combat is there to add excitement to your dungeon crawling experience, the dessert, not the main course.
    But instead of excitement, the combat added a lot of frustration and grinding (wasting time on your way to figure out how to reach the next level). And you can't say it's a dessert or a side dish. It's not something you do once in a while, it's something you do most of the time. Most of the game's mechanics are built around the combat - weapons, spells, leveling up...
    Also, in Portal there isn't any fighting (or weapons) so the comparison is not relevant here.

  5. #1225
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinSmoth View Post
    Isn't he doing this right now?[/COLOR][/LEFT]
    Yes indeed, it'll be 16 bit graphics style.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  6. #1226
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Carlo View Post
    IT is kind of sad that Humblebundle is returning to the McMillen well once more, though. There are a thousand other indie developers who could use some of the attention. Why offer "ISaac" yet again when they've already offered it in the past (along with Meatboy and Gish, several times each, it seems)?
    With this bundle the Team Meat games and Gish have now both been offered twice. What games would you recommend take Isaac's place though? Keep in mind it's up to the dev to put it in or not, so you can immediately count out the possibility of newer games like FTL or Hotline Miami as they're both still selling well.

    Apart from some of he early bundles where games debut, bundles are were indie games "go to die".

  7. #1227
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Have you seen these sales figures? Bundles are where indie games get resurrected. Like Steam sales.

  8. #1228
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    Have you seen these sales figures? Bundles are where indie games get resurrected. Like Steam sales.
    Go to die/resurrected, but not launched. It's also questionable how much it counts as ressurection since after the sale goes away and people finish the game there's usually very little DLC or additional content for them to buy full price. Even BoI comes with the DLC this time around.
    It's a great way for older indie titles to make some more money after being around for months and having dwindling sales numbers, but for new indie games it's not the place to make your appearance. You'll be over shadowed by the other games in your bundle and you'll have lowered the price point of your game dramatically. Of course it's also a great way for the Team Meat guys to get people to play a game of theirs while ramping up advertising and promotion of their new game. But if the guys behind say FTL threw their game into this, what have they got to promote after?

    Most indie companies move at an understandable snails pace when it comes to releases.

    I think I own about 50% of the bundle here, I'm only really interested in Grimlock, Shank 2 and whatever comes out in the future of the bundle, but since it's christmas and I'm feeling charitable I'll buy it anyway and give a good split all around.
    Last edited by Jesus_Phish; 20-12-2012 at 10:43 AM.

  9. #1229
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Bundles are where indie games go. Except Minecraft.

  10. #1230
    Activated Node echoMateria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan Carlo View Post
    IT is kind of sad that Humblebundle is returning to the McMillen well once more, though. There are a thousand other indie developers who could use some of the attention. Why offer "ISaac" yet again when they've already offered it in the past (along with Meatboy and Gish, several times each, it seems)?
    Humble Indie Bundle isn't about bringing attention to the indie developers. They only accept the best sellers into their bundles (plus a few personal friends) and serve as the cheapest way to buy the last year's best sellers.

    Indie Royale, Groupees Bundles, Bundle In a Box, etc. are about helping the underdogs. Indie Gala is similar to these but limits their attendants to Steam games for the most part.

    I love all the bundles the same, don't get me wrong, I'm just stating that they have different goals.
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  11. #1231
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    Here's an interesting perspective on Bundles. I'd always viewed them as a way for a developer to get recognition - and possibly follow-on sales - for their games, but some Indies I've spoken to reckon they are their single best source of revenue full-stop.

    RadianGames did a post recently which outlined a lot of income coming just from Indie Royale bundle and another indie told me that bundles (again Indie Royale) made up well over 90% of their total income in 2012!!

    Being in a Humble Bundle would presumably increase that enormously (as it outsells other bundles 100s:1) and on that basis I fully agree that Humble could do a bit more to promote new indies and not just the same (usually already well known) ones...

  12. #1232
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    As echo said, the different bundles all seem to have different ideas.

    Humble is for the bigger indie games, that have done well and are pretty much on their way out. A great way for the dev to get some final revenue and drum up interest in an upcoming game or their company. FTL will eventually go into the Humble Bundle when it's hype dies down and people stop buying it, so will Hotline Miami. Judging by piracy rates of HM it might even end up in this one.

    Indie Royal is great for the little guys, often bundling beta versions of games or games you'll never have heard of.

    Humble could do some good for the little guys by maybe throwing one or two into a bundle, but they risk being overshadowed. Imagine your game gets bundled with FTL, double edge sword as you get distribution to so many people but hey might never look at your game. Maybe they could have a bundle entirely of small devs and unknown games every so often.

  13. #1233
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    Hotline Miami's piracy rates are really no different to most other game's piracy rates. I wouldn't put much truck in that figure, to be fair. Except to contrast with it selling shitloads despite that which was kind of the point being made.

    Also, even though Hundles do massive amounts of money and have massive amounts of customers, the breadth of the market is vastly wider and there's always more people to reach out to. As far as everything I've seen is concerned, they're not anywhere close to somewhere you go to die/get resurrected/final revenue gasp for most participants.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
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  14. #1234
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    I love the idea that getting into Humble shows you're "on the way out".

    I got a review of one of my apps last week which said "Best game ever in history" - that means I should qualify for an Android bundle then - I mean you cannot - CANNOT - better that, can you?

    OK - someone then said "Games okay, played better" which is great because I've always wanted to know that - nothing like being brought down to earth tho, is there (and mobile app reviews do that with a bang-and-a-half!!)

  15. #1235
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    I just get OMG SEIZURE. It's really quite tiresome!
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
    I just get a bit fidgety times
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  16. #1236
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus ColOfNature's Avatar
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    Try making a game that uses less than ALL THE COLOURS! :)
    ...common and uninteresting.
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  17. #1237
    Hotline Miami's piracy figures could've been helped by the Dev basically giving the ok to pirate it. he was in the comments section of the torrent on The Pirate Bay telling people he didn't mind if they downloaded it, and helping people who had problems getting the torrent to work/run.
    Lookin' 4 Indie Bundles? We track 'em! http://steamcommunity.com/groups/IndieBundleTracker

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  19. #1239
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobF View Post
    I just get OMG SEIZURE. It's really quite tiresome!
    You love it you graphical SLAG! :)

  20. #1240
    Lesser Hivemind Node RobF's Avatar
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    @doctor_roxo

    It makes as good as no odds, really. Regardless of what you do, you'll be looking at a ballpark percentage of 90% pirated - that's whether you assist pirates or not, whether you include DRM or not. Whether you charge 2 or 2 earth pence. Piracy also (you'd never work this one out, right?) scales upwards according to popularity. Which is why the most popular pirated titles are often the biggest sellers and stuff.

    Obviously it's not a hard and fast rule and there are exceptions but often, the games that are the exceptions have far greater concerns than piracy rate to point the finger at for their failure (assuming failure), y'know?

    The worst that would have come from Cactus posting on TPB or wherever is that he might have upped his conversion rate a small notch and had a few more people pay for their stuff. See how SoS used TPB to promote McPixel, for example.
    My actions are in no way born out of some sort of Darwinist offensive
    I just get a bit fidgety times
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