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Thread: Project CARS

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    The early builds ran fine on the E8400 I owned which was massively overclocked and had a massively disproportionate GPU to work with.
    Fixed that for you - before someone goes out and buys and old PC with an E8400 in it and them comes to your house and kills you with it.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    The early builds ran fine on the E8400.
    Early builds ran a simple tire model BTM which didnt need much calculations to determine how the car would react, now you have STM which is a much more advanced tire model (still under development) and has a physics update rate much higher than before, thus causing more stress to the computer in terms of calcs it needs to do. Also lets not forget the game is not yet optimized, maybe when it comes out it will be possible to run in such older systems but not with maximum details.

    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Not really, I love coming into a thread to highlight that an earlier version (I assume Project Cars relates to Shift?) required hardware 'somewhat meatier than advertised' and being told it's my fault for buying the wrong machine makes my day...

    It's the reason I don't like RPS's occasional foray into PC Hardware, it draws-in people who own PCs to fiddle with them and then criticize others for their choices instead of just actually using them to play games or whatever.

    Getting back to Project Cars - tyre-wall deformation!?!?

    Much as I love the idea, there's a real problem with racing-games in that they're getting prettier but the feedback systems needed to compensate for our "not actually being in a car" are not advancing at the same rate.

    We can't all own hydraulic seat rigs - there' no decent standard for FF - so we need to create games which feel like a car actually feels rather than having either a dumbed-down 'just drift it around' model or a hand-slapping 'oh you crashed model - but they're out only options atm and Shift tried to do both with limited success at either!?

    I'd like some reassurance we're seeing a lot of polish to the basic game before people start taking about "tyre-wall deformation" and "flat spotting tyres" which they'd almost certainly not notice in a real car, let along a pretend one :)
    Thats what's being done in pCARS, we dont want ice racing or games where you drift even by just sneezing, what the community wants is a full edge simulator that within the hardware available in the market is able to simulate the best possible a reaction of a car, the force feedback currently in pCARS still needs alot of adjustment, but until the tire model is fully implemented in every car it is a bit pointless to work on it. There are alot of tricks the community currently uses to compensate like the FFBTweaker files that they create in order to improve it but in the future they wont be needed.
    The game polishing happens in real time, even yesterday (weekend) a developer was speaking with us at the official forums while fixing some issues. You can also "feel" the polishing with the daily updates the developers deliver through the week and they do not stop giving information to the community.

    :)

  3. #123
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    OK, so pCars is aiming at people who can afford a £100+/$150+ steering wheel - and ideally something better with FF, a shifter, pedals (incl. clutch?) etc. as the primary customer, it's not a Shift-style "we cater to everyone" model?

    That's interesting because it means pCars will compete head-to-head with iRacing and RaceRoom - both of which are following a 'pay to play' model and right now pCars funding model is 'up in the air' with the FSA?

    If they rule that the model isn't OK it's going to be a bad thing isn't it? The market for serious racers is pretty small and 3 games all offering a similar service aren't going to survive. One is already established - one is on Steam (never a bad thing) and erm...

    So, that FSA decision is going to matter quite a bit then?

  4. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    OK, so pCars is aiming at people who can afford a £100+/$150+ steering wheel - and ideally something better with FF, a shifter, pedals (incl. clutch?) etc. as the primary customer, it's not a Shift-style "we cater to everyone" model?

    That's interesting because it means pCars will compete head-to-head with iRacing and RaceRoom - both of which are following a 'pay to play' model and right now pCars funding model is 'up in the air' with the FSA?

    If they rule that the model isn't OK it's going to be a bad thing isn't it? The market for serious racers is pretty small and 3 games all offering a similar service aren't going to survive. One is already established - one is on Steam (never a bad thing) and erm...

    So, that FSA decision is going to matter quite a bit then?
    pCARS will be able to be played with anything you want, but for the best experience a wheel is always recomended. We have users currently that play with Keyboards, Gamepads and Wheels, the experience or feelings can be felt physically (rumble/FFB), seen (camera movement and way the car reacts) and heard (sound). Afterall the game is planned to be released for PS3,Xbox360,Wii U and PC.

    We aim higher than iRacing, we want to compete with the top end simulators like NKPro, rFactor Pro just to mention a few.

    FSA is just a minor setback, the game itself is funded and even if they had to refund the users they have proven enough to get easily a investor to provide what they need to deliver the game even without us or even find a way to make it work through Kickstarter or something else. Nothing that worries us (the community) the project is still moving and thats all that matters :)

  5. #125
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    I have to say that the mantra of "we're aiming above the competition" whilst still saying "but you can play with a keyboard and we're also doing console versions" is the same tune that Slightly Mad Studios have been playing since NFS: Shift 1 - and whilst the Shift games aren't actually bad, they're outstanding examples of 'jack of all trades and actually appealing to none'.

    Sim players see them as arcade games - arcade player see them as sims - people who don't like sims or arcade games can avoid them with ease.

    For example - I had to work REALLY hard to sell someone who'd moved from 360->PC on Shift 1/2 being alternatives to Forza. Their attitude was that they weren't in the same league and it was only when they were both REALLY cheap than they bought them and then came back and said "hey, these are actually pretty good".

    You cannot market a game at people who play rFactor/iRacing AND people who play Need For Speed and not expect to miss a fair bit of both markets!?

  6. #126
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    there are lots of people who buy wheels but don't care all that much about ultra realistic simulation

    it's like saying everyone who buys a fast PC is very passionate about graphics

    most people just want to have fun

  7. #127
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    You really think that's true? I'm not saying it isn't, but I reckon someone dropping the cash required for a proper FF enabled wheel/3 pedals/shifter/mount setup DOES care that the game supports that and makes use of it - that means they're looking for more realism than Driver: SF :)

    ALso - someone buying into a subscription or micropayment-based system is usually bit keener than someone just buying a game for a one-off cost (e.g. Forza or whatever)??

    p.s. everyone who buys a fast PC just cares about the little yellow numbers in the corner :)

  8. #128
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    I could never get my G27 configured well enough for me to play Shift 2, weirdly enough - couldn't find settings that I was comfortable with. That's still the main drawback of a steering wheel, every game requires a mini-Odyssey to get it set up properly.

  9. #129
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    people drive cars and can actually adapt to using a wheel. if driving wasn't so commonplace, they wouldn't catch on as much

    a lot of people who buy the equipment are barely gamers, but they know how to drive and they know what games are. it's fun for them

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    I have to say that the mantra of "we're aiming above the competition" whilst still saying "but you can play with a keyboard and we're also doing console versions" is the same tune that Slightly Mad Studios have been playing since NFS: Shift 1 - and whilst the Shift games aren't actually bad, they're outstanding examples of 'jack of all trades and actually appealing to none'.

    Sim players see them as arcade games - arcade player see them as sims - people who don't like sims or arcade games can avoid them with ease.

    For example - I had to work REALLY hard to sell someone who'd moved from 360->PC on Shift 1/2 being alternatives to Forza. Their attitude was that they weren't in the same league and it was only when they were both REALLY cheap than they bought them and then came back and said "hey, these are actually pretty good".

    You cannot market a game at people who play rFactor/iRacing AND people who play Need For Speed and not expect to miss a fair bit of both markets!?
    The NFS Shift Series were a game produced by EA and developed by SMS. This does NOT mean that SMS wanted to do it like that, they were paid to do so within the concept of EA and couldnt go outside the box.
    So please do not try to compare one with the other, only similarities besides the developers is the engine used in SHIFT series being an older version of the current in pCARS.

    Having the best physics doesnt not mean it has to be played only with the best wheel in the market, surely for more accurate feelings that would be the best but they can do the same even with a lower end wheel. Keyboard users may not feel physically the FFB but they can still sense the car movement from the sound and visuals, as much weird as it seems theres still alot of keyboard players out there in the world that due to their lifestyles or easyness of access prefer to use them, most of them are laptop users who do not possess a desktop or console and do not have the capability due to their lifes of traveling and taking a wheel or a gamepad with them.

    Its all about giving the people the options instead of limiting them like it happens in many other games, where they force you to use only a single type of controller. There's already ways to see whos playing with what, using our leaderboards and it will be implemented in MP races also since there seems to be alot of interest in keyboard controlled races by many users.

    You know that for some people Realism is playing without any driving aids (even if the car has them), others enjoy being realistic and using the same aids existing in the real life cars, others due to their lack of experience prefer to start from the bottom with full aids and move from then on to a higher level and this is what we are trying to achieve, a simulator that everyone can enjoy, like the controllers issue i mentioned above there are ways already to check which driving helps exist and there will be a way to filter them and define championships and competitions.

  11. #131
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    I don't think the core problems in Shift were anything to do with the publisher (OK, maybe the Drifting in S1), what Faldrath said is a common complaint, not just about wheels but about all the control methods on-offer.

    I spent maybe 3-4 hours trying to get a 360 controller working with Shift 1 (copying what I'd learned into Shift 2 meant I probably only spent half that time there) but I'd be lying if I said I was totally happy in either case - the forums were (and still are) packed with people saying the same thing.

    The same complaints keep cropping-up, that you never completely shake-off the feeling that the game is driving the car for you and that the physics are sometimes 'just a bit odd'. I firmly believe this is because in trying to offer everything from 'arcade' to 'sim' handling across various devices, they tried to hit too many targets and missed most of them.

    If you contrast this with Forza, which offers just 1 handling model but with optional assists - and targets just controller or basic wheel - Forza simply comes out feeling the better game. I suspect this is simply because it aims at one target and largely hits it.

    It could even be said that the only reason the SimBin titles are seen more as 'sims' is because that's how they're marketted. The handling in those games is less forgiving but the odds are they're modelling the same 'physics', it's just how they're presenting it and how much 'slack' they give the players.

    What I'm saying is that just talking about the minutiae of what's being modelled doesn't mean it will necessarily play better - it's just marketting, you have to actually deliver a game tho.

  12. #132
    Well thats the difference between this and those other games, in here the community participates in the development and they can see ahead if the physics are heading that way or not, the feedback exists both ways and they listen to the what the community has to say.So far everyone points that it going on the right direction but theres still a long path ahead before calling them done.
    Also having some known people in the racing industry is a good factor i believe, working closely with Ben Collins (former STIG) and Nicolas Hamilton (Lewis Hamilton brother) their input in the game has been tremendous and the game has been evolving at a fast rate in this area.

  13. #133
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    Whenever people bring in 'real racing drivers' to decide if a game is working right, I always smell marketing and bullshit.

    Also, all this 'community input' stuff is often hot air too - I've lost count of the games where the community thought it was getting it's say, but at some point a decision is made on how the game will play and I guarantee that at least half the 'community' will decide it's views were completely ignored and the bad feeling kicks-off.

    Nothing good was ever designed by a committee :)

  14. #134
    Well you would have to be in the project to believe, the feedback is there and we talk directly to the developers and get feedback in return. Doesnt mean that we have full control on the game but we can make things happen also since the developers usually when it envolves important decisions give the community the right to vote.

  15. #135
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    You realise you're sounding more like a Jehovah's Witness every post? :)

    I just had one of those visit - I think she left disappointed too!

  16. #136
    Im not trying to convince you of anything, i see you are a skeptic of the whole concept.
    If i had just plainly not commented on your posts you would end up building up a whole pile of misstrust on others mind wrongly based on just doubts, suppositions and missconception of what Project CARS and WMD is all about.

  17. #137
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mashakos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Not really, I love coming into a thread to highlight that an earlier version (I assume Project Cars relates to Shift?) required hardware 'somewhat meatier than advertised' and being told it's my fault for buying the wrong machine makes my day...

    It's the reason I don't like RPS's occasional foray into PC Hardware, it draws-in people who own PCs to fiddle with them and then criticize others for their choices instead of just actually using them to play games or whatever.
    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Fixed that for you - before someone goes out and buys and old PC with an E8400 in it and them comes to your house and kills you with it.
    thanks, the above quotes are great examples of the target audience I was thinking of when discussing the possibility of a branded PC catering to gaming enthusiasts who don't know much about computer hardware tuning.
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  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashakos View Post
    thanks, the above quotes are great examples of the target audience I was thinking of when discussing the possibility of a branded PC catering to gaming enthusiasts who don't know much about computer hardware tuning.
    Please do continue with your ideas on a completely different topic from the one at the top of the page by all means...

    in a different thread entirely - perhaps a different website entirely - not in a thread about a racing game eh?

  19. #139
    Hey there folks, another update with some great news.
    You read on my latest update that the RUF RGT-8 was announced and I’ve shown you some pics that the developers shared with us, well now I can show you pics taken by myself ingame showing the car in its full glory, you can check them below.




    Theres also some extra good news, out of nowhere the developers presented us with another BMW, this time the BMW M3 E92 GT4 and even tho its not a full detailed version like the RUF RGT-8 it still looks stunning, still in a early stage of development.




    Both vehicles will be available in the next build coming out Friday!

    Martin Griffiths, one of the Render Coders behind the Madness Engine also been working his butt off these past weeks with a huge amount of bug fixes and new features to increase the quality even further. If you think this game already looks good, the next incoming features will just blow your mind!

    That’s all for now, hope you guys enjoyed!

  20. #140
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    Ruf - enabling racing games to contain Porsches without needing Porsche's permission since about 1985 :)

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