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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post

    You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. I dunno if you've never played Doom, or if you've never played any game after Doom, but I'm positively flabbergasted by the blase insensibility of that statement.
    Did you watch the Favela video?

  2. #22
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    FPS is barely a genre at all. It's a mechanic.

    Arguing for a stricter definition of an FPS is silly, because then you're talking about something else entirely from the first-person shootery.

    Arguing that there's been no evolution in FPS games is like saying that MMORPGs haven't evolved because the new hotness is yet another fantasy game.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atarra View Post
    FPS is barely a genre at all. It's a mechanic.

    Arguing for a stricter definition of an FPS is silly, because then you're talking about something else entirely from the first-person shootery.

    Arguing that there's been no evolution in FPS games is like saying that MMORPGs haven't evolved because the new hotness is yet another fantasy game.
    I'm not saying that FPS games haven't evolved. What I'm saying/think is, the gameplay hasn't. Yes, we get to follow npc's around, watch a cutscene, walk around while a cutscene plays out. But the gameplay hasn't really changed at all. I'm talking about the core gameplay. The reason we buy the games. Do we really care about the story? Personally I don't. Yes I'll watch the cutscenes but all I really want to do is play the game.

  4. #24
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    No offense mate but we really did came a long way from Doom,and today's fps games play totally different.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    No offense mate but we really did came a long way from Doom,and today's fps games play totally different.
    Yeah that's what they're saying. I just don't see it. Gameplay wise that is.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    Yeah that's what they're saying. I just don't see it. Gameplay wise that is.
    That's because you're focusing on one single detail and ignoring the sum of the parts. You're basically stripping out the vast majority of the gameplay and taking the absolute basics and claiming that because they're all common elements that FPS games haven't advanced.

    Which simply isn't true. They all share the absolute basics (otherwise they're not FPS games) but they're all clearly different because of the other things they do.

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    Did you watch the Favela video?
    That's your reply? Here, crib notes:

    Gameplay developed since Doom

    You:

    Jumping. Dodging. Sliding. Crouching. Going Prone. Leaning. Vaulting. Climbing. Grappling. Swimming. Diving. Using a secondary fire mode. Using a non-lethal weapon. Using a weapon that isn't direct-fire. Blind-firing. Zooming in. Driving a vehicle. Flying a vehicle. Using a jetpack. Using a fixed emplacement. Puppeteering. Specializing for a role. Killing silently. Laying traps.

    Your enemies:

    Jumping. Sprinting. Dodging. Vaulting. Sliding. Crouching. Going Prone. Leaning. Climbing. Grappling. Swimming. Diving. Leaning. Blind-firing. Switching to appropriate weapons. Hiding behind cover. Flushing you from cover. Using fixed emplacements. Driving vehicles. Flying vehicles. Using jetpacks. Using weapons that obfuscate your view. Using weapons that stun you. Retreating. Reacting to visual and auditory stimuli. Communicating. Working in tandem. Flanking. Not killing you. Killing each other, and not just by mistake. Helping you.

    Your environment:

    Variegated. Recognizable. Modifiable. Destructible.

    And that's in just your dumb plotless shoot-em-ups.
    Last edited by Nalano; 26-03-2012 at 04:11 AM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    I agreed with almost everything you said spcd. But if you break down the gameplay in CoD or HL2 it's just the same as Doom isn't it? Get from A to B and shoot/collect/heal on the way.
    Honestly, describing FPS as "A game in which you shoot things" is just as accurate measurement as saying that Monopoly is a game "In which you roll a die and move stuff around". That would put it on par with Dungeons and Dragons, even though they are completely different games.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atarra View Post
    FPS is barely a genre at all. It's a mechanic.
    Yup. When it comes to the first-person perspective, most of the time it seems gamers focus more on the viewpoint than the content. First-person has been used for survival horror, dungeon crawlers, puzzlers, 'art' games, even the odd action adventure.

  10. #30
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    I've probably said it before, but FPS is a stupid genre label really. Call of Duty is always the biggest, most obvious example. But then you get a genre that includes Deus Ex and even Portal in some people's mind, but excludes Gears of War and Space Marine.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    I've probably said it before, but FPS is a stupid genre label really. Call of Duty is always the biggest, most obvious example. But then you get a genre that includes Deus Ex and even Portal in some people's mind, but excludes Gears of War and Space Marine.
    Well, if we exclude Portal and Deus Ex but add action TPSs, there's still a whole huge wave of things developed since Doom.

    Also, NOLF.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    That's because you're focusing on one single detail and ignoring the sum of the parts. You're basically stripping out the vast majority of the gameplay and taking the absolute basics and claiming that because they're all common elements that FPS games haven't advanced.

    Which simply isn't true. They all share the absolute basics (otherwise they're not FPS games) but they're all clearly different because of the other things they do.
    To use a metaphor which might just explain it even better: You say that, say, a hawk, has not evolved significantly from its dinosaurian predecessors, since it still lays eggs - completely ignoring the fact that it now can fly, for one.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    What's changed since DOOM?

    Mouse control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
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    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
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  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was gonna say it's like comparing matchlock guns to todays. You pull the trigger and something goes bang, but it's a very different thing.

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    There have been new gameplay mechanism being developed for FPS / TPS, but this time game console and arcade game take the lead.

    I think this game is not popular in the west, it's not popular here neither, but it did have some popularity in Japan, a Sega's great work called 2 Spicy (link), a TPS in which you use pedals to control movement while light gun to aim and shoot. I am not sure if that gun is a light gun or a motion sensor. I heard that light gun that work on LCD display is not affordable for game console users, but is sometimes used on arcade game. Anyway that technical details is not that relevant, but you will see some innovations in shooter games.

    Actually this arcade game runs on x86 PC by Linux. So strictly speaking you can say it's PC gaming, and it is not on Direct X, too!!

    Wii used to be new hope for shooter games, but Nintendo is such a jerk towards 3rd party developers. But you all know about the Metroid series on Wii. Sony all introduced their motion sensing gameplay for Killzone 3, too.

    Problem of PC gaming is that it is quite difficult to motivate development of new input system, besides of mouse+keyboard, wheel+pedal for driving games, and joysticks for horizontal versus fighting games.

  16. #36
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  17. #37
    Lesser Hivemind Node Keep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spcd View Post
    gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by spcd View Post
    gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by spcd View Post
    gameplay elements
    Quote Originally Posted by spcd View Post
    gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    core gameplay
    Quote Originally Posted by Heister View Post
    Gameplay
    Can I join the "Wow that actually is a useless word" wagon?

    So the argument I see in this thread is:

    1. Doom is an FPS.

    2. Shootmanbanger 2012 is an FPS.

    3. Portal's not an FPS!

    4. Nor is Amnesia!

    5. Or Mirror's Edge!

    6. Or Thief!

    7. Therefore FPS' haven't changed what givvvvvvves???


    Is this a lament that the core "gameplay" of FPS's has stagnated, or an upholding of that same "gameplay" at the expense of other possibilities?

    Cos there are only so many ways to shoot a man bang. The first guy that coded it did pretty much all that needed doing.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    What's changed since DOOM?

    Mouse control.
    Thanks to Quake

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep View Post
    Can I join the "Wow that actually is a useless word" wagon?

    So the argument I see in this thread is:

    1. Doom is an FPS.

    2. Shootmanbanger 2012 is an FPS.

    3. Portal's not an FPS!

    4. Nor is Amnesia!

    5. Or Mirror's Edge!

    6. Or Thief!

    7. Therefore FPS' haven't changed what givvvvvvves???


    Is this a lament that the core "gameplay" of FPS's has stagnated, or an upholding of that same "gameplay" at the expense of other possibilities?

    Cos there are only so many ways to shoot a man bang. The first guy that coded it did pretty much all that needed doing.
    Pretty much this.

    And of course the FPS genre has changed. Otherwise you wouldn't have people clamouring for a return to the "true fps' of yolde"

  20. #40
    Obscure Node Mantracker's Avatar
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    The idea behind FPS games is that it is fun to shoot things and hit them. This has been true ever since our forefather outlived that other guy who thought throwing pointy sticks at animals was boring. There is no need for games that tap in to this sensation to "evolve" because it has been fun for 500000 years, and considering how slowly our genome changes, it will be fun for way longer than any of us need to be concerned about.

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