Dragon Age II Reaction

[Drinking with Skeletons]

I played through a lot of it with Aveline and Isabela and the interaction between the two was one of my favourite parts. A lot of their dialogue highlights the fact Isabela wasn't designed to be merely a slutty pirate but was an attempt at a sexually confident woman who has no problems with it. Difficult to do and the character design didn't help but nice to see all the same.

She might not have any problems with her sexuality, but that's almost all she talks about, and the game strongly implies that she deals with a lot of STDs (notably a scene at Anders' clinic), so she's not exactly practicing responsible, admirable behaviors. And before someone says anything, this is a fantasy world with magic and healing potions. Seems like there ought to be some form of safe sex. Throw in the fact that she also comes off as a bit of an alcoholic and she's not much of a victory for womankind. Aveline is much better, as she is responsible, honorable, independent, and understands the moral quagmire of her attraction to a subordinate.

And yes, the ice-cold hatred between Isabella and Aveline is priceless. After one jaunt with the two of them, which ended with Aveline saying, "Shut up, whore," I knew I had a winning combination.

[Hillbert]

And yes, the ice-cold hatred between Isabella and Aveline is priceless. After one jaunt with the two of them, which ended with Aveline saying, "Shut up, whore," I knew I had a winning combination.

Well that was the interesting point. Early on in the game Aveline was judging Isabela harshly for (amongst other things) enjoying a bit of slap and tickle, despite the fact that this was always on Isabela's terms. "Slut Shaming" in essence. But as the game progresses this becomes a lot more nuanced with the two of them coming to an understanding.

Very rare to see that sort of interaction in a game.

[Althea]

I like the dialogue between Merrill and Isabela. I think it works really well, with one being sexually confident and the other not knowing... well, much about the birds and the bees. Isabela also works really well with Varric, as I think there's some aspect of conflict yet friendship with them - frienemies, almost.

I just got the scene in Anders' clinic, and I think it was a little inappropriate. Heck, two of the biggest British comedic fantasy franchises (Discworld and Fable) both lean towards safe sex (with Fable having condoms you can find/buy and use, and with Discworld having mention of rubber preventables) or at least do a pastiche on it, and Dragon Age should be no different considering safe sex is something that's existed for thousands of years in our world.

It's this weird dichotomy that BioWare have going. It's like they can't have "sexually confident" and "sexually responsible" in the same phrase. Mass Effect 2 had Kelly, Jack and some other promiscuous characters, and they were all sexually confident... but "sluts" (for want of a better term). Why can't they have a character who is sexually confident, knows what they want but doesn't sleep around?

On the other side of the coin, you have characters like Alistair (DA:O), Liara (ME1 in particular) and Merrill (DA2) who are sexually immature (i.e. they've never been there) and are confused by overtly sexual moments.

It's honestly like BioWare don't understand how sexual relations work.

[deano2099]

She might not have any problems with her sexuality, but that's almost all she talks about, and the game strongly implies that she deals with a lot of STDs (notably a scene at Anders' clinic)

One can go to a clinic to get a sexual-health check without necessarily having anything. Indeed, even if you're responsible and practice safe-sex, if you're particularly promiscuous then it's something worth doing semi-regularly. And a lot of people only take safe-sex so far and there's more than one way for things to be transmitted...

[Drinking with Skeletons]

One can go to a clinic to get a sexual-health check without necessarily having anything. Indeed, even if you're responsible and practice safe-sex, if you're particularly promiscuous then it's something worth doing semi-regularly. And a lot of people only take safe-sex so far and there's more than one way for things to be transmitted...

Yeah, but the only reason the scene stands out is that he actually chides her for her behavior. She isn't just getting regular check-ups, she's getting treated regularly for venereal disease. Other characters have sex--in fact, Anders talks about past lovers, he and Isabella talk about their exploits at a brothel, and Fenris says that his armor has "been known" to come off--but only Isabella receives flak--from more than one person, including her (sexually active) doctor--about sleeping around, because apparently she's much more irresponsible about it than those other characters.

[Nalano]

Isabela also works really well with Varric, as I think there's some aspect of conflict yet friendship with them - frienemies, almost.

They're not frienemies! They're just snarktastic! Their banter was why my group was all-rogue.

Mass Effect 2 had Kelly, Jack and some other promiscuous characters, and they were all sexually confident... but "sluts" (for want of a better term). Why can't they have a character who is sexually confident, knows what they want but doesn't sleep around?

What?

If Merrill was naive and Isabela was confident, Jack was on the other end of the spectrum at broken. And the games have plenty of non-promiscuous confident women. Two that come to mind from Bioware games are Liara and Silk Fox.

[Althea]

They're not frienemies! They're just snarktastic! Their banter was why my group was all-rogue.

Same difference.

What?

If Merrill was naive and Isabela was confident, Jack was on the other end of the spectrum at broken. And the games have plenty of non-promiscuous confident women. Two that come to mind from Bioware games are Liara and Silk Fox.

Jack was pretty open about her sexual history, and didn't seem ashamed of it at all. Yeah, she was broken. As for Liara? Confident? ME2, sure. ME1? Lolno.

[Nalano]

Jack was pretty open about her sexual history, and didn't seem ashamed of it at all. Yeah, she was broken. As for Liara? Confident? ME2, sure. ME1? Lolno.

Jack was pretty open about being abused, and mainly as a way of getting Shep to fuck off. Liara was naive about a lot of things, but sex wasn't one of them.

[Althea]

She was still largely playing the Innocent School Girl Wait Are You Flirting With Me Okay You Were I Don't Know What To Do With That card that BioWare love.

[Drinking with Skeletons]

I finally finished the game--and the two major DLCs, Mark of the Assassin and Legacy--and I still think the game gets a bad rap. Here are some thoughts:

SPOILERS FOR MAIN GAME

I didn't think the mages came off as too bad. I agree that Orsino should not have transformed into an abomination regardless of whether you were supporting the mages. It would've been better if he had been given enough hope to remain resolute and been killed by Meredith in a cutscene rather than undermine the player's choice. However, not every mage in the finale did that, and that was all (I felt) that was needed to justify my decision to protect them, regardless of anything else.

Meanwhile, I lost party members left and right throughout the game. I couldn't justify letting Isabella have the relic, so she left at the end of Act II. I couldn't side with the Templars, so Fenris left (although I was able to convince him to switch back), I was unable to forgive Anders, so I told him to leave, and since I couldn't bring myself to kill Anders Sebastien left. All of that was pretty devastating, leaving me with a less-than-optimal party for that last area.

My romance with Fenris never quite panned out--I think the best word for it was "ambivalent"--while the various side-stories unfolded with some dramatic results. One weakness of the game was that some of these didn't get much closure. I kept expecting Merrill to want to talk about having to kill her clan (that was a dark ending to that storyline, frankly) but I was never given an opportunity. I expected Varric to be affected by the shard of the idol, but nothing came of that, either. Perhaps they planned on using the (now-canceled) expansion to resolve those issues, but it's still a touch unsatisfying.

The game clearly suffers from being the middle part of a larger arc. Flemeth is really only present so that she can play a role in DA3 even if you killed her in Origins; that amulet is implied to be her saving throw. The next game will clearly involve the mage uprising and ensuing templar-mage civil war. Meanwhile, the information from Nathaniel suggests that the Grey Wardens have something afoot as well (mysterious allies and all that). Bodaine and Sandal seem to be the C3P0 and R2D2 of the series, though Sandal's dreams of the "Old Lady" suggest that Flemeth may have something important planned for him. Point is, everything in the game has to contribute to that plan, so much of the story is locked in place. Frankly, they should have just called it "Dragon Age: Champion;" it probably would have been better received by fans if it hadn't been marketed by its very name to be a direct follow-up to Origins. Still, I honestly hope that this isn't the last we see of Hawke and I hope we see more of at least some of his companions.

SPOILERS FOR DLC

So I guess the Architect was one of the original Tevinter mages who became the original darkspawn? That was the major point that I took away from Legacy, anyway. It was an enjoyable dungeon crawl that didn't overstay its welcome and had a surprising amount of quality dialogue. I also thought the final boss struck a nice balance between "genuinely menacing" and "amusingly hammy." Mr. Freeze would've been proud of that "Is it getting chilly" line. That he was also pretty challenging without being monotonous didn't hurt. Oh, and I quite like the genlock redesign. Here's hoping they'll remember in the future that they established back in Origins that the genlocks are supposed to be the most common darkspawn; that had been bugging me during the (relatively rare) encounters with darkspawn.

Mark of the Assassin was more uneven, but it still showcased a lot of the game's best qualities. There was a ton of amusing dialogue (Mostly from Hawke: "Tell them I died in Chateau Haine!,""Why do you bad-touch words like that?,""Chuckles? That could work..."), a great peek into Orlesian culture, and a nicely realized monster in the form of the wyvern. I also appreciated the Easter egg in the trophy room. Still, Tallis wasn't the best-performed character in the game, the ghasts seemed a touch at odds with the general tone of DA's creatures, and some of the encounters were rather drawn out. The final boss wasn't as challenging as Corypheaus, but he was still pretty cool. And you can't tell me that there wasn't a great jab at CSI: Miami at the end there.

All told, I'd give the game a 4/5. It wasn't perfect, but it did a lot of things well, and I am retroactively saddened at the cancellation of the expansion. Here's hoping that the next Dragon Age game will be the best of Origins, Awakening, and DA2. See, listing them like that points out how badly they named it!

[kyrieee]

You are supposed to be your character's personality in an RPG. I don't see how this could possibly be in the game's favour.

Says who?
People clearly enjoy playing characters who have a somewhat predefined presonality.
The goal of videogames isn't to replicate D&D.

[Kadayi]

Says who?
People clearly enjoy playing characters who have a somewhat predefined presonality.
The goal of videogames isn't to replicate D&D.

Dude there's no point arguing with him. If Gary Gygax himself were to rise from the grave and tell wizardry that his ideas on RPGs were ill-founded he's likely retort that 'He's not a true RPG fan'. There's no reasoning with him.

@DWS

Nice write up. I will likely get around to purchasing the DLC sometime soon and giving them a spin.

I'm looking forward to III also. I think the intention is to have the grey warden (if they live) and Hawke together, though whether that's true who knows.

[The JG Man]

Frankly, they should have just called it "Dragon Age: Champion;" it probably would have been better received by fans if it hadn't been marketed by its very name to be a direct follow-up to Origins. Still, I honestly hope that this isn't the last we see of Hawke and I hope we see more of at least some of his companions.

My favourite part about the ending if you sided with the Mages and [main character spoiler]didn't take Bethany with you to the Deep Mines meant you get her back in one last hurrah, however now she's insanely powerful[/spoiler]. I liked that a lot. Anyhow, I agree. DA:C would've been a suitable title and certainly would've allayed people's expectations going in. Also, it means we wouldn't have the problem of numberitis should we get to a high count of DA titles. Also, if you played as a human noble in DA:O, it is suggested that they and Hawke are related, meaning the ending of DA2 gives some pretty cool ramifications.

[Sketch]

You can get her back if you take her into the Deep Roads, you just need Anders with you.

[Drinking with Skeletons]

Nice write up. I will likely get around to purchasing the DLC sometime soon and giving them a spin.

I'm looking forward to III also. I think the intention is to have the grey warden (if they live) and Hawke together, though whether that's true who knows.

Frankly, I prefer RPGs to have different protagonists, unless the game is balanced for higher levels. I could live with Hawke having his levels wiped clean, but I would be kind of resentful if my blank-slate Grey Warden--who is literally nothing but the effort I put into him--was brought back and I had to start at level 1 again. But I would probably be overwhelmed and/or disengaged with a game that started with a level 30 character (especially since there's bound to be some more skill adjustments going forward). That's actually why I've never been able to play Awakenings without first playing through Origins, despite the fact that it's as much a stand-alone sequel as DA2. That's to say nothing of how a franchise that's been a traditional 30 level system could accommodate another 30 or so.

However, how could they incorporate Hawke? I'd be quite happy with him as a companion; he actually has enough personality and backstory for that! But since Hawke can be male or female, a warrior, a rogue, or a mage, and noble, irreverent, or thuggish, I just don't think that it's feasible to expect Bioware to be able to do much with him without disappointing fans. It'd be kind of like Anders: they had to very specifically address all of his myriad backstory possibilities to ensure that he could be a mopey advocate of brinkmanship in DA2 while at least acknowledging his personality change, to say nothing of getting rid of his cat. If they brought Hawke back for DA3 in any significant capacity, I shudder to think what awful, off-screen tragedies he'd be subjected to in order to bring him in line with the writers' vision.

[archonsod]

it also doesn't make sense in any context. She's supposed to be a close-quarters fighter, a pirate, so on and so forth, yet she wears what's basically a cut-down tunic and some boots. No real protection and is clearly designed to appeal to one's nethers.

Actually it does make sense. She's a pirate, pirates generally didn't wear armour, not only was it a liability if you ended up in the water, but it prevents you being able to work the ship. It also makes sense in the context of her being a duellist.

However, how could they incorporate Hawke? I'd be quite happy with him as a companion; he actually has enough personality and backstory for that! .

Bioware already said every DA game will have a new protagonist, so I doubt that'll be much of an issue.

[Sketch]

They never really addressed the fact that Anders could be dead, did they?

[Nalano]

Actually it does make sense. She's a pirate, pirates generally didn't wear armour, not only was it a liability if you ended up in the water, but it prevents you being able to work the ship. It also makes sense in the context of her being a duellist.

Yeah, a pirate's armor is the other mooks you throw at the enemy first. :p

And besides, you're attacking dozens of enemies at a time. Nobody did that, ever. So why care about realism?

[Serenegoose]

Yeah, a pirate's armor is the other mooks you throw at the enemy first. :p

And besides, you're attacking dozens of enemies at a time. Nobody did that, ever. So why care about realism?

I don't care about realism just about what looks good. Wearing next to nothing doesn't look good, it looks tired, unimaginative, cheap, and worst of all, tedious. It's casually dismissive of the idea of women as combatants rather than depicting them as fearsome adversaries, which isn't just all of the above, it's also completely inconsistent because we're told they're badasses. It's bad design.

[Nalano]

I don't care about realism just about what looks good. Wearing next to nothing doesn't look good, it looks tired, unimaginative, cheap, and worst of all, tedious. It's casually dismissive of the idea of women as combatants rather than depicting them as fearsome adversaries, which isn't just all of the above, it's also completely inconsistent because we're told they're badasses. It's bad design.

'k.