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  1. #13021
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    Oh dear, he's finally gone Stuart Baggs on us:
    That minute and a half had more brown-nosing in it than I have ever perpetrated in my entire life.

    Also, there was no word of majesty in there.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  2. #13022
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I think the sixty-four dollar question is, why would it even cross your mind?

    I mean, RPGs like to throw moral dilemmas at you, but they tend to do so almost entirely on the actions of the characters around you, allowing you to form an judgement of them based on what they do, not who they are. Who they are is almost always a red herring anyway, as RPGs love to throw inversions to the stereotypes at you anyway, so you'll get the beautiful hagspawn, the conscientious red wizard, the morals-bound devil, the unassuming princess, et cetera, just to play with your perceptions and their tropes.

    So yeah, the point of all that is to avoid the arbitrariness you describe.
    I explained that quite clearly above. If I killed a guy who was of a different race, would the residents of Novac think me racist. Which then led on to, what would a racist play like in a game like this?

    I guess being honest though race is at the forefront of my mind more than it be might be for others. The discrimination my wife has received on account of it, systematically in employment for a year before it was taken to court, and once or twice in public, and also some of the stigma I have received for marrying her? Thatís probably a factor. The consideration we need to make that we wonít be able to move to certain places without the ethnicity of my wife being an issue, thatís probably one too. If Iím liable to be racist towards anyone in all seriousness itís white people. Which if Iím honest is still as bad as being racist towards anyone of any race, mentally I have to go along with that notion even if in my heart that feels ridiculous when I know what my wife has experienced and none of my white friends have.

    And I get that ostensibly RPGís offer you choices to make your decisions Ėon what people do, not ďwho they areĒ-but theyíre normally on such a he said-she said premise that it hardly counts as compelling objective evidence on which to kill someone or condemn them to some sort of excessively punitive fate, which is the solution in 90 per cent of cases.

    And avoiding the arbitrariness? Most RPGs you determine the fates of individuals on the basis that no-one can argue with your doing so, and then you happen to justify that as you wish. Youíre such a centre of power though that itís all tied in to the disempowerment of pretty much everyone you meet. Your opinion is only relevant because of your ability to massively force the issue if ignored. In real life even guys with big weapons donít just go around doing what they want because they tend to have social pressures exerting on them which means a monopoly on violence isnít the be all and end all, but pretty much every game misses this element. You are very much an anti-social organism in pretty much every game Iíve ever played because you have no society which mechanically affects you which you canít manipulate.

    Your primary interaction with the world is that of one of being in a position of supremely elevated power, not a moral agent. You can go out of your way to try and dilute that which is what I do in most games, to try and make it seem more representative of a reality I can understand, but the level of actual analogy to acting within a real community is absolutely minute.

    So I personally donít see the difference between killing someone because youíre a racist or because you decide theyíve done something wrong, or just because youíre a baddie and thatís what baddies do. Itís all a power fantasy. Itís all about you, you can justify it how you like-thatís the point, indeed-but out with the game it means fuck all. There's no morals involved in most cases.

    Youíre not even dealing with humans for the most part as we recognise them. Neither literally (obviously) or in the form of anyone whose behaviour is really recognisably human. People are nodes stuck to the scenery to interact with for the most part. I have seen thirty times as many Radscoprions as I have children in NV. Itís still a great game, Iím still enjoying the story and interaction and characters, but it doesnít have any semblance to reality. Nor does it pretend to.

    Itís playing the part in a play which is somewhat open to interpretation but your arc is telegraphed and tied in to the narrative. If you tried to do some stuff like share your wealth or just chill and live in a town you would break it. And also, it would be boring.

    Iím not even sure in hindsight if itís possible to be ďracistĒ in this situation. The only thing I have to object to on a racial basis is literally the skin colour of an individual. Racism is rarely as neat as that. I mean, accents arenít even uniform because thereís only about 6 voice actors so some black and white characters have literally exactly the same voice.

    Itís one of the reasons the Witcher does do racism well, thereís a context to it and real difference between humans and non humans in more than just how they look. They do things differently and separately, thereís a reason for prejudice for people looking for it. Racism stems from intolerance, and there is so little to tolerate or be intolerant of in characters in the majority of games that itís all abit moot really. There isnít enough ammo there for bigotry, because there is hardly any personality or background of any stripe. I wish there were more racist characters in games actually because it would necessitate that they be far better written for it to work.

    I love RPGís by the way and any game with an element of choice within the narrative, but it's as an actor in a scripted drama. Playing a good guy or a racist or whatever to me has even less moral consideration required than it would playing equivalent in a play or a film.

    Iím having a blast with NV, but itís with NV the roleplaying hyper violent Ameritrash wild west simulator, not the NV which poses as some sort of troubling commentary on my own Id, which is how people seem to be reacting here. I find it very funny really, itís such an ill-conceived concern/accusation.

  3. #13023
    I'm not playing anything. Oh I'd love to, on my brand spanking new ultra-rig that I built at the weekend but sadly the constant BSOD's are preventing me from pretty much doing anything. To be honest I'm just posting in threads willynilly to make up my quota so I can post my own thread.

  4. #13024
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    A few things:

    1) Of course you're an arbiter of power in an RPG: The whole point of a game is to enfranchise the gamer. That means that the gamer cannot be truly punished for their decisions, as that would be taking the power away from the gamer.
    2) That does not, however, mean that you're not a moral agent. You are the sole moral agent, and like a god not only are you almost always capable of forcing the issue but are almost always immune to consequence.
    3) As such, any act of caprice is entirely your fault, not that of the game. It asks of you to play judge in its little world, but all options are ultimately chosen by you. The more options, the more your actions are a facet of your own nature. Hence.

    While most games are unfortunately situated around combat situations and thus killing is usually an answer, that's a limitation of the imagination of the designers - ultimately, our RPGs are really just combat simulators with extra bits tacked on for the between-combat interims - but not an excuse for the player.

    Also, for fuck's sake, move. If people are giving you shit for miscegenation, holy shit on a stick get the fuck outta there and don't look back.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
    Director of the Friends of Nalano PAC
    Attorney at Lawl
    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  5. #13025
    Lesser Hivemind Node eRa's Avatar
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    Just started Bulletstorm (which is still on sale over at Amazon.com for $4.99). What a colorful game this is, in terms of language as well as visuals. Seems like an enjoyable shooter dosis of dumb fun, the Skillshot system is nifty. The only downside so far is that it comes with GFWL.

  6. #13026
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TechnoJellyfish View Post
    Is it just me or are the average times on howlongtobeat.com quite a bit off?
    Depends entirely on the game, some are spot on or at least very informative, others are misleading to varying degrees. Games with an internal timer and trial-and-error gameplay are the worst offenders, but it does look like the whole point of the site has flown above someone's head.

    Sometimes you will be able to tell at a glance, if not you'll need to click on "all playstyles" to get a better sense of what's going on. I'd recommend to report (or challenge in the site's own parlance) the times that seem off.

    My user name on HLTB is the same as RPS forum (and the profile is linked in the sig anyway) so if anyone wants to add me there to check my times, you're welcome. I take my time and often behave as a completionist of sorts, so my submissions are often above the average.
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  7. #13027
    Network Hub DeVadder's Avatar
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    I am playing SMITE all day, every day.
    And Factorio alpha.
    Currently playing Supraball, Titanfall, Wildstar and Eve.
    If you happen to like or be interested in fw or general lowsec shenanigans in Eve, say "o/". Name is De'Vadder there.

  8. #13028
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    So the predator challenges in Batman: Absorbed Compounds make me feel like a fanboy who dressed up like batman and got himself killed.

    I am sat looking at some of he challenges other people have completed in less than a minute (after modification by completing mini objectives) and 10 minutes later I'm stuck in a deadlock by a set of guards that are covering each other... Ugh, I mean they are not all this bad, but the harder campaigns are monstrous.

    I actually quite enjoy Nightwing and Robin's skill sets, but Catwoman's is completely rubbish. So... she cant glide(which is fine by itself, Nightrwing cant glide) she has 3 crap tools and when there is jammer she doesn't even get a "jammer is sorta over here" arrow.

    I cant believe the game has so much of this content, the challenge "Chaos Theory" where you need to perform an inverted take-down on a guard wearing thermal vision gave me a chuckle, but generally the game is teaching me how wholly uninventive I was at fighting guards, disable this guns using the disruptor then walk to to them at punch them in the face, knock a regular guard out by blasting a heavy armoured guard at him with the electric dart thing... Oh, and countless more too.

    I guess this one is staying installed.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  9. #13029
    Activated Node Oathbreaker's Avatar
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    10th post.

    KOTOR

    Fallout Tactics

    Thinking about Torchlight 2.

  10. #13030
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    So the predator challenges in Batman: Absorbed Compounds make me feel like a fanboy who dressed up like batman and got himself killed.

    I am sat looking at some of he challenges other people have completed in less than a minute (after modification by completing mini objectives) and 10 minutes later I'm stuck in a deadlock by a set of guards that are covering each other... Ugh, I mean they are not all this bad, but the harder campaigns are monstrous.

    I actually quite enjoy Nightwing and Robin's skill sets, but Catwoman's is completely rubbish. So... she cant glide(which is fine by itself, Nightrwing cant glide) she has 3 crap tools and when there is jammer she doesn't even get a "jammer is sorta over here" arrow.

    I cant believe the game has so much of this content, the challenge "Chaos Theory" where you need to perform an inverted take-down on a guard wearing thermal vision gave me a chuckle, but generally the game is teaching me how wholly uninventive I was at fighting guards, disable this guns using the disruptor then walk to to them at punch them in the face, knock a regular guard out by blasting a heavy armoured guard at him with the electric dart thing... Oh, and countless more too.

    I guess this one is staying installed.
    Catwoman makes up for it by having incredibly easy combat challenges. She uses more hits in her attacks and attacks more quickly which means easier point scoring in the long run. The catwoman predator modes suck though. Deeply and truly. I don't even know why a jammer interferes with her "thief sense."

    The one thing I really, really hate is the top of the world predator map. It's like they knew just the way to suck the fun out of predator and then shoved it in half the campaigns.

  11. #13031
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Ironically, an invading Forgotten Beast that shoots webs around manages to web some of my dwarves and got themselves trapped into their own cage traps.
    Art blog here.

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  12. #13032
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Dwarf Fortress always sounds so great when someone speaks about it,but then when i look at ingame screenies i seriously can't tell whats going on. Is the game really that hard to learn ?

  13. #13033
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    The one thing I really, really hate is the top of the world predator map. It's like they knew just the way to suck the fun out of predator and then shoved it in half the campaigns.
    I'm conflicted, either 'top of the world' is a master class in level design' or its just a bit shit.

    Your ability to traverse is massively limited, your ranged one hit KO(s) is a good starting point but the jammer doesn't really go outside, but what then? 3 choices present either you take the open windows and try pick someone or you can pull someone off the balconies. An ice cluster could be useful but guards seem resistant to luring.

    The other predator maps mostly massively suit Batman, I think I will spend more time getting punched and shot.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  14. #13034
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Dwarf Fortress always sounds so great when someone speaks about it,but then when i look at ingame screenies i seriously can't tell whats going on. Is the game really that hard to learn ?
    You are not one with The Matrix.

    But no, it's not really hard to learn as it is hard to master it
    Art blog here.

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  15. #13035
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voon View Post
    You are not one with The Matrix.

    But no, it's not really hard to learn as it is hard to master it
    Whats the goal of game,to build fortress ? Or it more ?

  16. #13036
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Whats the goal of game,to build fortress ? Or it more ?
    Nothing. Just build a fortress and hope that it survives till the next season. And laugh maniacally as it falls
    Art blog here.

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  17. #13037
    It is relatively easy to run a safe and small fort.

    You will never run a safe and small fort. It has this crazy psychological effect that makes you go insane over time.

    Sure, my fort has survived for 10 years through goblin sieges, forgotten beast attacks, food shortages so let me just try to put a waterfall in everyone's room to soothe them. Ah but the river freezes in winter so I'll need to pump magma 200 levels up so I can have running water for my waterfalls all the time. Well, get to work on those pumps guys! ( and at this point if you don't play with some storage and supply settings for your workshops to make the pumps out of magma-safe material you are going to have problems ) [ or if you give the digging orders wrong your guys will fall in lava, or flood your fortress.]

    Then again when you reach this level it's rare that your entire fortress will die in one event. I mean, we're speaking of being able to build public bathhouses to teach your guys how to swim ( I had a fort that was surrounded by rivers, knowing how to swim was part of the militia training after the first fight when half my guys dodged the goblin attacks straight into the rivers and drowned ) and many more crazy feats of engineering at this point. What usually happens is your fort gets crippled due to "unforeseen consequences" and you give up on it. That or some forgotten beast with a nasty syndrome manages to spread necrotic dust on your militia who party with the general public after their victory. Then the disease kicks in and nobody can lift a muscle to breathe.

    Sigh.
    Last edited by Caddybear; 26-02-2013 at 10:23 AM.

  18. #13038
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Whats the goal of game,to build fortress ? Or it more ?
    Build wooden monoliths towering hundreds of feet into the sky, fill your treasury with near infinite wealth, attract dragons.
    and then simultaneously accidentally stir up daemons and a war with Elves at the same time.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  19. #13039
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    I tried recently and once again bounced right off the interface. Like the X series, it's another one of those games I'll never be able to play without someone in the room to assist the first time. I don't sift through huge fuckoff manuals and guides just to learn the basics. I didn't even read manuals back in the early days when it was practically mandatory.

  20. #13040
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Voon's Avatar
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    Oh, yeah. I might get lynched for saying this but while I love the game, DF's UI is just terribad and barely navigatable. Seriously, Toady One really need to fix this

    It takes a lot of getting used to, so try watching some video walkthroughs or learn the hotkeys by clicking around
    Art blog here.

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