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  1. #20581
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    I genuinely don't get why the 'having enemies spawn in' is a bad thing considering how few hits the average enemy took to deal with. It's not like DA1 when even your average genlock could take a good few seconds focus fire blasting to die, it was 3 hits from a rogue, tops. Blat blat blat dead. If they didn't spawn, most fights would either begin with something like 60 enemies on screen in one place or be an absolute cakewalk. It's not like it's a surprise, either! Maybe after the first fight or two, you might be all 'hmmm, are they gonna spawn in this time', but surely once you're in act 2, you know how it works? I mean, it always sounded to me kind of a bit 'I used my biggest fireball as the opening move and now it's on cooldown when more bad guys appeared? where is tactics in this??????'

    Save some of your spells. The inability to just hit the entire fight with a giant AoE as your opening move didn't make the game less tactical.
    The main problem with spawning waves was that it completely goes against the way the rest of the combat systems works. For instance, the game is based around the assumption that you'll be using AI scripts for at least two, probably three of your party members. But these scripts have no idea about whether or when waves are going to appear, so they'll merrily either use up all their abilities quickly, or not use any at all: there's no middle ground that you can include in their logic. It hardly seems sensible to build your combat around AI instructions that are actually bad play to use. Just to make life worse, most abilities have long cooldowns and high costs relative to resource regeneration.

    Then you also have the fact that the combat is aggro-based, and the main way of assigning aggro to your tank is to use activated abilities. And let's not forget that tanks in particular have the worst stamina regeneration in the game...

    And then as the final insult you don't know how many waves there are going to be, what the triggers for the next wave are, and which wave is the strongest. In many cases you are even actively penalized for efficient play.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  2. #20582
    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    It's a game about heroes staving off teeming hordes of demon spawn. It is not an "optimum strategy" to invest in crowd control in such circumstances-it's stupid not to, unless you want a deliberate challenge.

    In which case, my solo run through as a Rogue suggests that you can indeed navigate such issues if you invest in your character appropriately.

    Also-take time to make sure you're doing the auto-managing thing properly and programme it accordingly. If your party are dying a lot prioritize healing potion functions, if your tank isn't taking the brunt of the damage make sure he's prioritisng agrro and that your support are prioritisng running away or switching to melee. There are very few enemies who can't be either killed or neutralized very easily if your party are doing the basics. In particular there are hardly any "damage sponges" to speak of. Wights and dragons are genuine health bar tanks but other than that there's nothing comes to mind. A well specced rogue can kill an ogre or emissary in a few hits.
    Love how you assume I didn't. I'm mostly talking about the early-to-mid-game here; yes, mages and rogues eventually break everything, but in the mean time you're going up against barrages of enemies your tank can't tank, your spells barely scratch, your rogues and warrior take forever to kill, without much in the way of healing. Not impossible, no, but a pain in the ass, especially when you're wrestling with party controls and AI.

    Honestly, we're looking at very different perspectives here. You solo'd the game, for fucks sake. I'm simply not interesting in investing in the game to that point.

    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    The fighting in DA 2 was good too, it was just the ludicrous utterly meaningless plot that was the problem. But it was a biiig problem.
    I hate you. :P
    Last edited by wrestledwithgod; 27-03-2014 at 04:21 PM.

  3. #20583
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    It's very much "Escape Goat 2 Escape Harder", the difficulty has gone-up a few notches - there are some new tricks but nothing outstays it's welcome - the new graphical style is amazing - if you liked the first, get this one. If you didn't play it - get that and then get this one.
    Tell you the truth I was quite fond of the pixel art of the original and the animations especially, guess it'll be some getting used to the new style, my first reaction wasn't exactly utter joy. And, that thing about difficulty? EG was pretty much spot on in my opinion.

    We are so lucky to live in a time when the Great Tim Schafer enjoy unfettered freedom to poop so many great games on us. I'm only a touch sad that only so many unfinished Tim Schafer games and prototypes are available for purchase. Tim Schafer <3.
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  4. #20584
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrestledwithgod View Post
    Love how you assume I didn't. I'm mostly talking about the early-to-mid-game here; yes, mages and rogues eventually break everything, but in the mean time you're going up against barrages of enemies your tank can't tank, your spells barely scratch, your rogues and warrior take forever to kill, without much in the way of healing. Not impossible, no, but a pain in the ass, especially when you're wrestling with party controls and AI.

    Honestly, we're looking at very different perspectives here. You solo'd the game, for fucks sake. I'm simply not interesting in investing in the game to that point.


    I hate you. :P
    I soloed the game when I was very ill and was in a sort of nihilsitic/hateful place. Still not sure why I did it really : /

    BUT i had played the game twice before that. But the first time I played it I bought it on day of release, basically didn't sleep for the weekend and finished it three hours before work started on Monday. There was no FAQ's or anything like that, it was fresh out, and I found the concepts of the game to be entirely self evident or well documented within itself. Once I figured out the self management system and tweaked it accordingly for the various types of encounter it was very straight forward. I didn't find a single bit of it difficult, and I'm honestly not some sort of pro gamer. If something didn't work I just worked out why and did something different, and have had no problem with any fight in Origins or Awakening or nay of the DLC or had to grind or anything like that as a result of it. That's partly why I got through it in a weekend the first time, it just flowed nicely. If it inherently requires anything like the sort of investment you're implying I wouldn't have got through it anywhere near as quick. I'm not a marathon gamer. I've never played another game other than the Witcher 2 in as consecutively as quick a space of time.

    I'll concede that the Wight and Dragon fights are just chipping away at a health bar essentially but they just require application. The most obvious spike to me is when you arrive in Denermin and encounter like a million street thugs in the back alley, they ran me close on a few occasions, but they just required better tacitcs on my part. They were close quarter mobs with protected support, over quite a distance, so they required more thought than the previous spawns who just jump on top of you. But they didn't require anything of me that that the game didn't give.

    If your tank can't tank everyone-i.e be a tank-then you need to work out how to kill quicker and more efficiently, or divert the intentions across the group. There will be a way unless you've specced up your classes as the antithesis of what they're meant to be.

    Happy to give some pointers if you give a more specific description as to what the the trouble is
    Last edited by sonson; 27-03-2014 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #20585
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    Just finished Alpha Protocol.

    For me, it had the Mass Effect problem. I haven't played any of the sequels, but the shooting business lacks tension and impact. The fact that you basically become a war-god half way through the game makes the combat generally far too easy, and so you just get caught up on crappy controls. In other news, while the story wasn't great, the interactions were absolutely fantastic. I didn't care much about what happened, but the reactions are probably the best I've seen in this kind of Obsidian-whatever rpg type thing.

    Contemplating a game of AI war. I've never finished a game, but always love the few hours I do play of each. I think I might just throw myself at it (paradox game style) and see what happens. I might just be losing patience with long-format games, but when I finally get into them, they catch me like nothing else.

  6. #20586
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    I finally got hooked on Vampire Bloodlines.
    Despite liking it I never actually made it far into the game, now I'm in downtown and having a blast.

  7. #20587
    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    I soloed the game when I was very ill and was in a sort of nihilsitic/hateful place. Still not sure why I did it really : /

    BUT i had played the game twice before that. But the first time I played it I bought it on day of release, basically didn't sleep for the weekend and finished it three hours before work started on Monday. There was no FAQ's or anything like that, it was fresh out, and I found the concepts of the game to be entirely self evident or well documented within itself. Once I figured out the self management system and tweaked it accordingly for the various types of encounter it was very straight forward. I didn't find a single bit of it difficult, and I'm honestly not some sort of pro gamer. If something didn't work I just worked out why and did something different, and have had no problem with any fight in Origins or Awakening or nay of the DLC or had to grind or anything like that as a result of it. That's partly why I got through it in a weekend the first time, it just flowed nicely. If it inherently requires anything like the sort of investment you're implying I wouldn't have got through it anywhere near as quick. I'm not a marathon gamer. I've never played another game other than the Witcher 2 in as consecutively as quick a space of time.

    I'll concede that the Wight and Dragon fights are just chipping away at a health bar essentially but they just require application. The most obvious spike to me is when you arrive in Denermin and encounter like a million street thugs in the back alley, they ran me close on a few occasions, but they just required better tacitcs on my part. They were close quarter mobs with protected support, over quite a distance, so they required more thought than the previous spawns who just jump on top of you. But they didn't require anything of me that that the game didn't give.

    If your tank can't tank everyone-i.e be a tank-then you need to work out how to kill quicker and more efficiently, or divert the intentions across the group. There will be a way unless you've specced up your classes as the antithesis of what they're meant to be.

    Happy to give some pointers if you give a more specific description as to what the the trouble is
    I think you're missing the point, and being condescending about it to boot. I never found myself well-and-truly stuck at any point in the game, nor did I try to brute-force my way through. I simply found tedious as fuck for the reasons I outlined earlier. It's not a game that makes winning and losing strategies clear, a la Dark Souls and its ilk. Nothing is high risk/reward. Instead, you have hordes of enemies, loads of shitty cooldown-based and sustained skills, and not much in the way of active participation.

    I mentioned it's like bashing your head against a wall earlier. I meant that in the sense that even if you find just the right headgear to get it done, you're still stuck with a fucking tedious task. And, more likely than not, a severe concussion by the end. :P

    It's just not my cup of tea.

  8. #20588
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    Sticking to main story missions in Splinter cell: Blacklist and so far liking what's going on. The story is a usual Clancy with plenty of words like terrorist, agency, dirty bombs and drones, but it's nicely done and well executed with a good mix of game and cut-scenes.
    From a gameplay perspective, I find it most enjoyable trying to avoid any contact on my way to target (main and secondary).

    I also tried to play more of Papers, Please but after 4-5 hours I found the novelty gone and the game to be too mechanical and boring to play, even if I want to see other endings.

  9. #20589
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrestledwithgod View Post
    I think you're missing the point, and being condescending about it to boot. I never found myself well-and-truly stuck at any point in the game, nor did I try to brute-force my way through. I simply found tedious as fuck for the reasons I outlined earlier. It's not a game that makes winning and losing strategies clear, a la Dark Souls and its ilk. Nothing is high risk/reward. Instead, you have hordes of enemies, loads of shitty cooldown-based and sustained skills, and not much in the way of active participation.

    I mentioned it's like bashing your head against a wall earlier. I meant that in the sense that even if you find just the right headgear to get it done, you're still stuck with a fucking tedious task. And, more likely than not, a severe concussion by the end. :P

    It's just not my cup of tea.
    It really does. Apologies if you found my post condescending but I was simply pointing out the manner in which the game does indeed make it clear, in that if you understand the basics then you can apply them to whatever problem you encounter and the outcome will bear that out. It's not like Dark Souls and it's ilk becuase a) few games are and b) it's an RPG party based combat game. It's built upon a system, as with all these things. It's a formula. Put the right equation in and you win, anything else and you lose. It isn't as explicit about it but its all about numbers. Combat in these games is problem solving, not button mashing or attack patterns. I love those sort of games too, but they're different. At no point has Dragon Age ever claimed to be anything remotely like Dark Souls or that sort of game, so why you're expecting it to offer something revolutionary that it never offers I'm not sure.

    Obviously you are completely entitled to not like it, for any reason at all, but I don't think there's much valid objective critcism in saying that a game is poor because it adheres to one of the most essential components that the genre entails.

  10. #20590
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    So I tried Luftrausers on my Mac, and the Vita version is definitely easier, it's either that or it depends on your rank. I survived far longer than I bothered to on the Vita version several times, only got the blimp to appear once, nuked it posthumously and it didn't even count as a kill!

    Edit: Never mind, got it done with Lockon. I think it might be my new favourite Rauser... My best score in SFMT is about 1/10th of my best in normal mode.
    Last edited by neema_t; 27-03-2014 at 09:11 PM.

  11. #20591
    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    It really does. Apologies if you found my post condescending but I was simply pointing out the manner in which the game does indeed make it clear, in that if you understand the basics then you can apply them to whatever problem you encounter and the outcome will bear that out. It's not like Dark Souls and it's ilk becuase a) few games are and b) it's an RPG party based combat game. It's built upon a system, as with all these things. It's a formula. Put the right equation in and you win, anything else and you lose. It isn't as explicit about it but its all about numbers. Combat in these games is problem solving, not button mashing or attack patterns. I love those sort of games too, but they're different. At no point has Dragon Age ever claimed to be anything remotely like Dark Souls or that sort of game, so why you're expecting it to offer something revolutionary that it never offers I'm not sure.

    Obviously you are completely entitled to not like it, for any reason at all, but I don't think there's much valid objective critcism in saying that a game is poor because it adheres to one of the most essential components that the genre entails.
    It adheres to that essential component poorly. I'm not suggesting it be like DaS in the sense it abandon its genre, rather that it follow that game's better, more abstract design choices. Problem solving shouldn't be spam everything and bring two mages, a dps dealer, and a tank rather than one mage and three dps dealers. It's dull, especially when so much of your game is spent in combat.

    Then again, people exist who like EVE. To each their own, I suppose.

  12. #20592
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    I thought that but I can't see in what reality you could get up to that point and experience it be so hard

    The fighting in DA 2 was good too, it was just the ludicrous utterly meaningless plot that was the problem. But it was a biiig problem.
    Funny, I'd have called Origins' plot largely meaningless, since I never cared about any of it, and got far more invested in DA2. ;) Plus I'm pretty sure oppressed minority underclass was a well-worn trope in fantasy fiction by the time Bioware started work on Origins. I don't care how many videogames had done it - nerdy genre stuff like this should be taking inspiration from any and all creative media and trying to do them one better. Bioware did nothing with the trope beyond throwing it in to score some easy emotional responses, IMO.

    As for the duel, I mean the bit where you prove that Generic McTraitor was a very naughty boy and betrayed the king, and you get to fight him in single combat. He basically wiped out every single person in my party I threw at him in a matter of seconds until I sent a mage and simply froze him, then chipped away at him until he un-froze, then froze him again, etc., etc. Brought the plot and the action to an absolute grinding halt. I nearly gave up at that point.

    EDIT: It may be worth mentioning that I played Origins before it was patched after a lot of people complained it was too hard. Or maybe not, I dunno. Just saying.

    I really, really did not like Origins. Adolescent posturing of the worst kind with nothing to recommend it. I honestly couldn't point to a single thing I thought it did better than any other RPG going, Western, Japanese, whatever. I enjoyed DA2 enough despite its flaws I'd love to play another game that I found entertaining in the same way, but I'm nervous enough about Bioware returning to Origins because of shrieking fans that there's no chance I'd pick Origins up on day of release.

  13. #20593
    B-but how am I supposed to care without a horde of evil monsters threatening to destroy everything if not for an intrepid group of adventurers!?

    Checkmate, doubters.

  14. #20594
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrestledwithgod View Post
    B-but how am I supposed to care without a horde of evil monsters threatening to destroy everything if not for an intrepid group of adventurers!?

    Checkmate, doubters.
    You win. Your opinion is better than my opinion and I have lost : (

  15. #20595
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    I'm playing Sensible World of Soccer 96/97, this game is soooo good.

  16. #20596
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eight Rooks View Post
    As for the duel, I mean the bit where you prove that Generic McTraitor was a very naughty boy and betrayed the king, and you get to fight him in single combat. He basically wiped out every single person in my party I threw at him in a matter of seconds until I sent a mage and simply froze him, then chipped away at him until he un-froze, then froze him again, etc., etc. Brought the plot and the action to an absolute grinding halt. I nearly gave up at that point.
    I found the difficulty of that fight to be nothing compared to the DA2 equivalent against the Arishok. That fight was just a giant fuck you to anyone who wasn't a rogue or maybe a shield-user. My tough-as-nails, big-fuck-off-sword-wielding Hawke spent large amounts of time running in circles to heal up, with that asshole following close behind. I can only imagine how hellish it would be for a mage.

  17. #20597
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    Interestingly I found that fight to be one of the most exciting, although by then I had unlocked the Revival spell, whatever it's called, so I could come back from the dead in long fights. For me the grand high bastard of DA2 was the Ancient Rock Wraith. I think it's because that battle requires you to position your characters well and the way the game works doesn't lend itself well to simultaneous positioning of multiple characters. I had to knock the difficulty down to Normal for that one, no idea how I would have won it on Hard.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  18. #20598
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    That fight is pretty much dependent on what class you are

    If you are a Fighter/Tank (like my first try), it is nigh impossible

    If you are a mage or a rogue (so you have DPS out the ass), it is trivial

    Hmm, as many problems as I have with DA2's combat, I kind of want to play it again/finally complete it (it glitched out at the start of the last Act). Just a shame I can't be arsed to buy the DLC even though I know Bioware will never have a sale.

    [edit]Heh, went back to check and I did indeed forget to back up my DA:O save. But I then found there is an actual save file generator. SO yay[/edit]
    Last edited by gundato; 27-03-2014 at 10:13 PM.
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  19. #20599
    Lesser Hivemind Node TheDreamlord's Avatar
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    I went back to give another shot to Renegade Ops, as when I bought it a couple of years ago I didn't have a controller. Well, it's even more frustrating with the controller. Although I quite like the game, I absolutely hate the timed events. What the hell you want me to destroy seven enemy com towers or whatever, scattered around the map, in three bloody minutes? What is the point of the time limit, other than frustrate. The game doesn't exactly have the smoothest movement (the car drives like a hoverboat) and it's not that easy to aim with the controller. I doubt I'm going back.

  20. #20600
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDreamlord View Post
    I went back to give another shot to Renegade Ops, as when I bought it a couple of years ago I didn't have a controller. Well, it's even more frustrating with the controller. Although I quite like the game, I absolutely hate the timed events. What the hell you want me to destroy seven enemy com towers or whatever, scattered around the map, in three bloody minutes? What is the point of the time limit, other than frustrate. The game doesn't exactly have the smoothest movement (the car drives like a hoverboat) and it's not that easy to aim with the controller. I doubt I'm going back.
    It's unashamedly an old-school arcade game (specifically - Jackal) and it takes it's motif from those games.

    The idea is that you learn how to progress in stages - and you don't even have to feed-in 10p pieces...

    Not for everyone, perhaps, but once-upon-a-time, all games were like that.

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