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  1. #21001
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Yeah been quite a while for me but I seem to remember the rinse and repeat cycle taking an interminably long time to the point where after failing when I was probably very close to killing the damn thing I just didn't have the will to try the one more time I probably needed (I'm definitely less patient these days!).

  2. #21002
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Then, as much as my eureka moments with The Swapper impressed me, I'm feeling too tired to play anything that requires brainpower.
    Do come back to it, its beautiful.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  3. #21003
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Was enjoying Dragon Age 2 up until the act 3 Sebastian quest that is apparently un-completable with the latest patch. Bioware's solution is "just reinstall the game and don't patch it"

    Yeah, all of my momentum just went out the window. And it is a shame, since I was actually very much enjoying DA2 this time around.

    So now I am debating more Path of Exile or possibly some Diablo 2 (watched a lore video by Jesse Cox and he actually motivated me to get interested, and I DO have a copy of diablo 2 registered with battle.net for some reason).
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  4. #21004
    Lesser Hivemind Node Wheelz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    Until you get to a shit damage sponge boss that is tedious in the extreme and stop playing just as you were starting to quite enjoy yourself in spite of the dreary aesthetic.

    That might have just been me though!
    for me it was the Giant Worm boss (which I think is about #3 or #4?). There doesn't seem to be any feedback to indicate whether I've been doing it wrong/right. I was really enjoying the game up until then though.

    JGMan, do you happen to remember what you're supposed to do for that fight?

  5. #21005
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    I believe so? I'll put it in spoilers, just in case.

    [Darksiders 1 third dungeon boss fight spoiler]On horse back, you need to ride up to its mouth where the locks are for its mouth guard and take them out by sword. There is one on each side. Once the guard has been broken off, you need to let it charge you and target its Desginated Weak Spot for massive damage using the gun. There's a few minor challenges in this fight: 1) Getting on the correct side of the worm to break the locks. 2) Getting in position to get charged and landing a good shot. 3) Staying on your mount.[/spoiler]

    I just watched a video to make sure I got it right. It can take a bit of time because you're usually being subjected to problems with the third challenge, but it's generally speaking pretty straight-forward and rather difficult to die on if you've done even a basic job of getting health upgrades.

    [Spoiler]It's not as fun as the arena fight beforehand, but then that was a really high point in the game.[/spoiler]
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  6. #21006
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    Ugh...boss fights. When can we retire those from the annals of gaming again? At least in their current iteration, they are often the worst thing about games. I wish developers would realize that bosses should have unique, superior combat AI, more robust weapon and move sets, and be more adaptable in general, in order to increase their difficulty.

    But no. We get damage sponges instead. Which is really a pity, as its such a wasted opportunity.

    Ahh well...currently playing Crysis 3, courtesy of Origin's spring sale. I would never recommend it for anywhere near full price, but for $9.99 its a decent shooter. Only a couple of hours in, and there are some corridors. But I have also seen some of those wider levels as in the first game, offering the chance to really play the AI for fools and sort of make your own solution for getting where you need to go.

    Not a bad game for $9.99, to be honest.

  7. #21007
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    Completely agree with the above. Never once in a game have I gone "awesome, a boss fight!" At best, they're inoffensive enough that I can barrel past them without my momentum taking too much of a hit. At worst, they can stop a game dead in its tracks to the point that I just stop playing.

    Anyway, I'm in the mood for something a bit lighter after Lone Survivor, so I started up Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge. It's more Monkey Island, which is good enough for me.

  8. #21008
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Track View Post
    Completely agree with the above. Never once in a game have I gone "awesome, a boss fight!" At best, they're inoffensive enough that I can barrel past them without my momentum taking too much of a hit. At worst, they can stop a game dead in its tracks to the point that I just stop playing.
    My thoughts on the subject absolutely word for word. I've literally never encountered a "good" boss fight, they only come in "tolerable" and "awful" varieties. These days, with limited gaming time and seemingly limitless options, they're an easy way to simply eliminate certain games from purchase consideration. Dark Souls, for example, isn't even faintly interesting thanks to its reliance on these tiresome annoyances.

    On Topic: AI War (still, because it's just that good), Blood Bowl: Chaos Edition (despite the still-lackluster AI, <sigh>) and I just started dabbling with Arcen's new one: The Last Federation. It's got a lot of promise.

  9. #21009
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    To be fair I've enjoyed some of the Zelda boss fights and the same goes for Psychonauts. I think with a little bit of invention they can rise above the "tolerable." Though I guess in the aforementioned cases it's not so much the gameplay mechanics that elevate them but the fact that they've got a good sense of humour about how ridiculous they are which brings in an element of fun that's often lacking in games which take themselves more seriously.

  10. #21010
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    BG2 has the best boss fights (if you'll call them that), as one would expect from the Official Best Game Ever.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  11. #21011
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    Boss fights can be great! The aforementioned Dark Souls (also what I am playing) and Zelda. Both have great boss fights because they exhibit interesting and novel behaviours. They require the player to observe and adapt and pose enough of a challenge for the victory to be really satisfying. And they provide a climax to what precedes them (I was ecstatic when the Iron Golem finally died).

    Not to mention MMO bosses, which define organised PvE. Twenty people expertly beating the crap out of one monstrosity can be fairly exhilarating.

  12. #21012
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    I pretty much only like boss fights if the things you're fighting are obeying the rules of the game. That means a normal sized health bar, no stupid immunities, and preferably using moves and equipment the player has or will eventually have access to. The final fight of Baldur's Gate 1 is probably the finest example of this I can think of. Jeff Vogel also does this pretty well.

    The best boss fight in my memory is Jedi Knight 2. They made a genuinely fun boss fight, and then they made a way out for people who hate boss fights.

  13. #21013
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Metal Gear Solid, Metroid and Castlevania games are poster children for bosses done right.

    But fuck puzzle bosses. The ones in Darksiders were terrible.

  14. #21014
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    A lot of the boss fights I've played in games recently are boss fights that don't belong in the game. My Steam library has tons of games that are deserving of the boss fights contained within. I think a lot of their implementations otherwise are just hackneyed and done "Because boss fights are in video games!!!" Need only play Serious Sam First Encounter to completion to know that boss fights are necessary, just in the right games.

    EDIT: Boo sabrage, BOOOOOOO! Darksiders' bosses are fine...well, apart from the very final one of 2 which was bad for various reasons. At least the penultimate one was excellent.
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  15. #21015
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    I really enjoyed the bosses in Painkiller.

  16. #21016
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smullyoz View Post
    I really enjoyed the bosses in Painkiller.
    Ugh, Alastor is probably the most frustrating boss I've ever encountered in a game. Painkiller is a perfect example of how not to do bosses.

  17. #21017
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    Boss fights can be great! The aforementioned Dark Souls (also what I am playing) and Zelda. Both have great boss fights because they exhibit interesting and novel behaviours. They require the player to observe and adapt and pose enough of a challenge for the victory to be really satisfying. And they provide a climax to what precedes them (I was ecstatic when the Iron Golem finally died).

    Not to mention MMO bosses, which define organised PvE. Twenty people expertly beating the crap out of one monstrosity can be fairly exhilarating.
    Having fallen in love with Dark Souls up to the Tomb of the Giants, I can - sort of - agree with this. Some - and only some - of the bosses in Dark Souls are novel and challenging. Taurus Demon comes to mind as one that is particularly well done and plenty fair - if you use your brain and your surroundings to your advantage.

    On the other hand, you have bosses like Capra and Nito. Capra is cheap. Nito requires you to make your way through a level without lighting of any kind- turning a torchlight on and off with every step. Then, he starts hurling some kind of crazy status effect previously unseen in the game. All of which would be grudgingly ok - yet still unfun - at best. But to add to this, he has hordes of giant skeletons in the room with him to take things from challenging over the ledge and into tedious.

    At no time in the history of gaming has the addition of underling minions to a boss fight made said boss fight either more fun, or less tedious of a slog. It has not - ever - happened. It might make things harder, but not in a way that is more enjoyable for the player.

    And isn't that why we play games? To enjoy ourselves?

    Which reminds me - two hours into Crysis and the only "bosses" I have seen, are the maps you have to make your way across. Its so far like Dishonored - with a Nanosuit. So here is to hoping it doesn't revert at some future point to plain corridor shooter.

    Also playing Kingdoms of Amalur: The Reckoning: The Anti-Dark Souls. Its a nice change from Dark Souls. Especially for $11 for the entire fiasco, and on Steam. Trying a Finesse/Might character - that's right...Amalur, without using magic spells for the most part. So far its been fun in short spurts.

    I might also start Sleeping Dogs, which I forgot I owned from last year's Christmas Goodies. I hear all round its rather excellent, from the presentation to the combat to even the story.

  18. #21018
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Ugh, Alastor is probably the most frustrating boss I've ever encountered in a game. Painkiller is a perfect example of how not to do bosses.
    What about Lucifer? The mechanics itself were kind of "meh", but the experience and the scenery were amazing.
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  19. #21019
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    What about Lucifer? The mechanics itself were kind of "meh", but the experience and the scenery were amazing.
    As a level, it's visually amazing, but as a boss it was incredibly anti-climactic. Albeit somewhat of a welcome one after the frustration of the Swamp boss and Alastor.

    There was also a robo-spidoid bug that you had to fight about five times in the expansion pack... But Stone Pit was the only good level in that thing anyway.

  20. #21020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcompany View Post
    On the other hand, you have bosses like Capra and Nito. Capra is cheap. Nito requires you to make your way through a level without lighting of any kind- turning a torchlight on and off with every step. Then, he starts hurling some kind of crazy status effect previously unseen in the game. All of which would be grudgingly ok - yet still unfun - at best. But to add to this, he has hordes of giant skeletons in the room with him to take things from challenging over the ledge and into tedious.

    At no time in the history of gaming has the addition of underling minions to a boss fight made said boss fight either more fun, or less tedious of a slog. It has not - ever - happened. It might make things harder, but not in a way that is more enjoyable for the player.
    Capra isn't cheap. Period. At least not in the context of Dark Souls, since it's really not a game which is about fighting enemies as much as it's about fighting the environment. Capra is a boss that can be killed reliably with little luck involved if you figure him out once, which is something that can't be said about the Bed of Chaos for example - Which is one of the two "cheap" bosses in Dark Souls.

    And when it comes to Nito - At this point i'm fairly sure that you were subconciously looking for something to help you escape this game and used Nito as an excuse, since the two points you bring up here do not make much sense. A: His status effect isn't something "previously unseen", it's toxic (as far as i can remember) - It might not be something that you would expect the moment you go in there, but it's something that you learned how to deal with up untill that point.

    And his minions... He's a necromancer for crying out loud... If his ability to resurrect minions bothers you then simply do what the game bloody taught you to do against that and kill them with a divine weapon.

    But i stand by what i recommended in the Dark Souls thread: "You do not enjoy the game, you will not enjoy the rest of the game, just stop". It's certainly good that you finally realized that yourself, but you really should have realized that at capra demon, which, when observed from the outside, was the point where you stopped having fun and mostly visited the dark souls thread to complain about bad design this, bad design that. Apart from that you only visited it to tell us how great it felt to finally get past a portion of the game that you really hated - Which means that a: you didn't enjoy actually playing the game itself, and b: you might secretly be a masochist.

    And speaking of masochism: I've devoted most of the last three days on learning how to play Dwarf Fortress. Or rather: I've devoted the last three days on learning how to learn how to play Dwarf Fortress. After consuming a couple of Guides, a frighteningly large amount of wiki articles and watching parts of a let's play it's starting to make (some) sense and i no longer feel completely lost 100% of the time. No, i can, with some confidence, say that i'm only lost 90% of the time at this point. But even though i still feel like the cryptic GUI is keeping me from being in full control (as in: i'm still afraid of accidentally sending my dwarfs into space) at this point i managed to achieve FUN a couple of times already. I'm not sure if i'll stick with this game for long, but for now it's incredibly fascinating.

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