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  1. #21021
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    Currently I am playing Teleglitch:DME. It really is a superb game. The lo-fi graphics add to the atmosphere, particularly with the recent-ish addition of lighting effects. Furthest I've made it so far is level 5, where I got trapped in a room with two massive machine gun wielding monsters. I managed to evade their fire, but then blew myself up with a home made panzerfaust.

    For those that haven't played this yet, I strongly recommend that you do so. It is tough, unforgiving, but lots of fun.

  2. #21022
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Internet View Post
    I pretty much only like boss fights if the things you're fighting are obeying the rules of the game. That means a normal sized health bar, no stupid immunities, and preferably using moves and equipment the player has or will eventually have access to. The final fight of Baldur's Gate 1 is probably the finest example of this I can think of. Jeff Vogel also does this pretty well.
    It wouldn't even occur to me to call those "boss fights," and (to be clear) they're not what I'm talking about. Boss fights in the sense I mean (and in the sense that are always shit IMO) are always an arbitrary violation of the usual game rules, which is what's so annoying about them.

  3. #21023
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    Assuming there are 'normal game rules' already implies that bosses are unnecessary and do not belong. What if the game is all about the boss fights, a la DaS or most MMOs? Or Shadow of the Colossus?

  4. #21024
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    So, I've been going back to Shogun 2, and in particular, the Fall of The Samurai expansion pack, which is in my opinion, the high point in the entire series. (and a large part of why Rome 2's shoddiness surprised me - after this and shogun 2's base game, I really thought they'd finally figured out how to make these games. But nevermind.)

    Starting at the latest technological point in the total war series, my favourite part of the fall of the Samurai is how it manages to crack the fusion (err, which I suppose makes it a fission) of two disparate time and technological periods - medieval japan, and the industrial-age west. Even your basic line infantry is a step up from what appears in empire: total war, but the barracks that let you create modern line infantry and sabre cavalry is distinct from the barracks that lets you create a versatile but finicky medieval force. Have both of them, however, and you can back up line infantry with katana charges, utilise battlefield ninja as stealthy grenadiers, and charge the backs of vulnerable enemy formations with a mix of revolver cavalry and yari samurai cavalry. Or... do what I usually do from my vantage point in the 21st century, rush artillery and guns, and steamroll the place with your hindsight. Because artillery is OP. I think it sticks with me because it manages to be something a little different to the usual total war series, and shogun 2 was always the one with the most love poured into the stylism, which shows on all levels - even the campaign map's fog of war is a nice 19th century map you steadily push back to see the terrain beneath. Plus if you do decide to make it hard (and expensive, because dudes with swords are pricey) on yourself, managing to outmaneuver an army you've no right to beat with your ancient weapons and hokey religion. I think the one area it does a bit fall down on is the naval battles. Whilst they're the best in the series, 'interesting events' (like detonations of your ships magazine) happen a bit too often, and can make the battles feel unfairly random, and astronomically expensive, given how not-at-all cheap ships are in the game. Still. It is quite good.

  5. #21025
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizlar View Post
    Assuming there are 'normal game rules' already implies that bosses are unnecessary and do not belong. What if the game is all about the boss fights, a la DaS or most MMOs? Or Shadow of the Colossus?
    Then I immediately know it's not a game I want to play, which is handy. "Puzzle bosses" really are a blight on game design IMO, the last thing I'd ever want to do is play a game designed around them.

  6. #21026
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mittens89 View Post
    Currently I am playing Teleglitch:DME. It really is a superb game. The lo-fi graphics add to the atmosphere, particularly with the recent-ish addition of lighting effects. Furthest I've made it so far is level 5, where I got trapped in a room with two massive machine gun wielding monsters. I managed to evade their fire, but then blew myself up with a home made panzerfaust.

    For those that haven't played this yet, I strongly recommend that you do so. It is tough, unforgiving, but lots of fun.
    Those guys can mess you up. But if you've ferreted out the whole level you've probably found one or two heavy rifles - one is in a cabinet somewhere and the other behind a secret wall, but I'm not sure that secret is always there. Combine those into a 2x rifle and those bastards go down in two shots. But your aim has to be very good. I don't bother with pzfausts because the one time I tried to use one against the war walkers, it went right between them and then they killed me. So it's rifles all the way! Until the end of level 8, I think I'll definitely need some pzfausts for that one.

  7. #21027
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    Quote Originally Posted by Procrastination Giant View Post
    Capra isn't cheap. Period. At least not in the context of Dark Souls, since it's really not a game which is about fighting enemies as much as it's about fighting the environment. Capra is a boss that can be killed reliably with little luck involved if you figure him out once, which is something that can't be said about the Bed of Chaos for example - Which is one of the two "cheap" bosses in Dark Souls.

    And when it comes to Nito - At this point i'm fairly sure that you were subconciously looking for something to help you escape this game and used Nito as an excuse, since the two points you bring up here do not make much sense. A: His status effect isn't something "previously unseen", it's toxic (as far as i can remember) - It might not be something that you would expect the moment you go in there, but it's something that you learned how to deal with up untill that point.

    And his minions... He's a necromancer for crying out loud... If his ability to resurrect minions bothers you then simply do what the game bloody taught you to do against that and kill them with a divine weapon.

    But i stand by what i recommended in the Dark Souls thread: "You do not enjoy the game, you will not enjoy the rest of the game, just stop". It's certainly good that you finally realized that yourself, but you really should have realized that at capra demon, which, when observed from the outside, was the point where you stopped having fun and mostly visited the dark souls thread to complain about bad design this, bad design that. Apart from that you only visited it to tell us how great it felt to finally get past a portion of the game that you really hated - Which means that a: you didn't enjoy actually playing the game itself, and b: you might secretly be a masochist.

    And speaking of masochism: I've devoted most of the last three days on learning how to play Dwarf Fortress. Or rather: I've devoted the last three days on learning how to learn how to play Dwarf Fortress. After consuming a couple of Guides, a frighteningly large amount of wiki articles and watching parts of a let's play it's starting to make (some) sense and i no longer feel completely lost 100% of the time. No, i can, with some confidence, say that i'm only lost 90% of the time at this point. But even though i still feel like the cryptic GUI is keeping me from being in full control (as in: i'm still afraid of accidentally sending my dwarfs into space) at this point i managed to achieve FUN a couple of times already. I'm not sure if i'll stick with this game for long, but for now it's incredibly fascinating.
    Actually, at this point, I was looking for something to help me love Dark Souls again. I really was.

    Much of the game is excellent. The combat. The minimal narrative. The atmosphere. The lack of a musical soundtrack. And the level design and world building are second to none. Heck I even love the fights with mooks and mini-bosses. Silver Knights, Tower Knights...even Black Knights are fair, exciting battles, provided you do not stumble onto them too early on.

    I even love some of the bosses. O&S will forever be one of my favorite boss fights in a game - in as much as I like them at all, which I generally don't - because as tough as it was, it was fair. Good visibility. Plenty of room to move. Environment you could use to your advantage. Tough but fair and reasonable.

    On Capra, Tomb and Nito though, we are just going to have to agree to disagree. I feel those are extremely cheap situations. Severely limiting a player's movement or visibility, or tossing in a half dozen giant mooks for 'flavor' in my opinion makes a fight tedious and unenjoyable.

    You might not feel this way. That's fine; I respect that. But for me, Capra was a warning that, yes, I should have heeded. It was an announcement regarding the direction Dark Souls was headed. I should have stopped there. I really should have. But I loved the world and the mechanics and narrative construction and the mystery so much that I pushed on.

    Past Blighttown and its FPS issues. Past the tedium of the Anor Londo snipers. Past O&S. But the Tomb was my breaking point. Being a goodly bit claustrophobic myself I found the depths bad enough. But Tomb was both claustrophobic and tedious in the extreme, to me personally. Coupled with Nito, it was simply more tedium than fun - something that had been cropping up more and more often since the Parish, in truth.

    So I am on to things like Crysis 3 and Amalur for now. I wish it were otherwise. I do. I love everything about Dark Souls except the bosses, and Tomb itself. And I was almost done with the latter.

    Give the DS bosses a reasonable health bar and enough room for the player to stick with the play style they spent the entire game developing and you would probably have the perfect game, or near enough.

  8. #21028
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Then I immediately know it's not a game I want to play, which is handy. "Puzzle bosses" really are a blight on game design IMO, the last thing I'd ever want to do is play a game designed around them.
    It's better to to think of the encounters in Shadow of the Colossus as extensions of the environment rather than "bosses," and Dark Souls only has one puzzle boss (and it's by far the worst one in the game.)

  9. #21029
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Then I immediately know it's not a game I want to play, which is handy. "Puzzle bosses" really are a blight on game design IMO, the last thing I'd ever want to do is play a game designed around them.
    Yeah. For my part, I think this works if the game rules are clear with you that not all is established and that discovering how things work is part of play; play is subjective, of course, but that aside a good game never forces you to uncover obscure information in order to play but rather only as part of play. This goes not just for new and obscure information, but for adding on new mechanics on top of the core mechanics--mini-games, puzzle bosses, legend-of-metroid-vaniaz-style gadgets that unlock new areas, etc. These should never be introduced in a way that supplants or distracts from the primary mechanic but rather only as a way of helping that mechanical system enter spaces it could not have easily entered otherwise. Obviously this goes for Quick Time Events as well.

    It's a bit pat, though, because the real discussion isn't in determining what I've said but in figuring out whether or not a game cleaves to it. But a lot of games violate this basic design logic on a whim and don't get any negative attention in reviews and what-not for it. In a game about shooting and smashing things flamboyantly you wouldn't want a lock-picking mini-game--you surely kick down doors and blast them open. Gated content should be gated not by find-the-key but rather by find-the-bazooka (see Metroid, I suppose).

    Hey, look! A Segue! I've been playing LEGO Marvel Super Heroes.

    Basically the entirety of most LEGO games is all about violating the concepts I've been discussion here. There is very little game there and it's NOT because it's an easy kid's game--Yoshi's Island is a medium difficulty kids game that's easy as crap for me after gaming for so long and it feels like substantially more of a game than the LEGO games AND it still has the gleefulness and joy that I find in the LEGO games; more robust mechanics are perfectly possible in easy/children's games and for that matter I feel there is room for LEGO games to stretch their legs into more "serious" gaming territory with tougher and more robust gameplay. But that's another matter.

    In any case, the animations, sight-gags, and the sheer imagination and joy in those games is great but I find myself wishing they were an animated feature on Cartoon Network or something rather than what they are now--I'd watch the crap out of that, but I need a game that is meatier and more coherent and less repetitive whether or not it is any more difficult. The core conceit of the games is using a wide cast of characters with different abilities to overcome obstacles that require several of these abilities ... but the game restricts what characters you can use in "Story Mode" while still putting you in levels that require the use of other characters to collect things; the whole Free Play vs. Story Mode thing is really a bit crap--the only difference is that by limiting Story Mode the game forces you to backtrack in order to do exactly the same thing only in a more entertaining fashion with more freedom to screw around and enjoy the silliness of it all. The puzzle element that might justify maintaining challenge coherence by designing a level specifically for a certain sub-set of characters doesn't work. The puzzle element isn't just easy, it is non-existent; we can't simply pretend it was designed for small people who don't necessarily think very hard about these sorts of things yet because the game doesn't ever ask them to even try to figure out something obvious. It makes Dora the Explorer look subtle, sometimes. The game tells you exactly where to go and what to do and won't shut its gob about it for ten seconds and the only times that anything is even remotely confusing is when the camera decides that it hates you or when you decide not to smash everything in the room only to discover after a few moments of head-scratching that this is one of those rooms where you have to smash everything and then press a button to "build" a thing that allows you to proceed.

    It is a very long, utterly charming quick time event that has glimmers of good design and an abundance of good taste. I love the swipe-targets-to-lock-on mechanic for some heroes and would love to see it at work in a tighter action game, I love the insta-swap between various characters and the tactical possibilities that creates during a fight (or would create if fights were more tactically robust) and the clever use of LEGO in the game(s) never ceases to bring me joy from Iron Man's thruster trails to miscellaneous details on various vehicle builds to the load-screen architectural minis/schematics being made out of LEGO. I don't mind having bought it, because it did bring me joy and I've played other iterations on consoles via friends without paying for the privilege. But I am disappointed that there isn't much of a game here. They're so GOOD at the rest of it, they ought to just make cartoons; that or take the gameplay design a lot more seriously.
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  10. #21030
    Quote Originally Posted by Procrastination Giant View Post
    And speaking of masochism: I've devoted most of the last three days on learning how to play Dwarf Fortress.
    It is certainly masochism at first. Still, engineering your very first indoor well or fully automatic defense system is immensely satisfying.

    Random tip: embark with pigs! They require no surface grazing and can you breed unlimited amounts safely underground. Good source of pigbone crossbow bolts assuming you have become versed in the arcane rituals necessary to persuade your militia to actually use them.

    EDIT: I found the name of the mod I use: Modest Mod

    It's really more of a bugfix patch than a mod. It also adds some very sound tweaks such as:

    -Added pause and recenter on death of citizen (This is an absolute godsend to stop you playing detective a month later everytime someone dies.)

    -Goblins wear less clothing, causing less clutter after sieges
    Last edited by crazy horse; 20-04-2014 at 11:27 PM.

  11. #21031
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bobtree's Avatar
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    I haven't been keeping up on this thread, so this is a couple months worth.

    Loadout is well worth a spin if you like oldschool 3d arena shooters. Around 10h clocked playing with a friend over the last couple months. The weapon building system is fun to experiment with, but it also is always messing with the balance of your matches one way or another. It seems to be getting a lot of good updates. I'm not really tempted to spend money on it, but at least the F2P bits are only cosmetics and "earn stuff faster" boosts.

    Renegade-X is great fun and very impressive for a purely non-monitized free game. It plays very differently from what I expected, but the original Renegade also predates Battlefield, so I appreciate that it does it's own thing and isn't a clone. There are still some issues and crashes, and one map that's always a stalemate, and too many servers with ridiculous settings (like 80 mines per team), but it will probably shape up in time. The one big omission is built-in voice support.

    I snagged CS:GO in the sale and put around 5 hours in. Despite the changes it's still quite true to CS, and I can see why the purity of the game retains the fanbase. Nothing really compares for requiring sheer anticipation and steel nerves under fire.

    SMITE is a nice diversion as a F2P third-person action-MOBA. The setup took some figuring out, as you have to run the troubleshooting & diagnostics tool to tell it to install somewhere besides the default location, but it can't be changed during the download. It isn't a SMNC-beating action game, since it really just has 2d gameplay with a 3d view, but it also doesn't have that game's meta-power creep. While you don't have all the characters unlocked, the matches are fair otherwise (and modulo the luck of matchmaking of course). It also isn't super mechanically deep like DOTA, but I really can't render any kind of final judgement in my 12h of playtime. There's no voice chat here either, and no text chat with your opponents, but there's a Tribes:Ascend-style voice command system.

    Titanfall is a blast. I waited for the first update and price drop before I picked it up roughly a month ago, but I wouldn't have been unhappy at full price. I do wish it were strategically deeper, with modes more like ETQW or BF2142. As it is, the mechanics of movement and combat are so slick that it's simply a pleasure to execute the basics in, and the 15 maps are well designed with lots of variety to keep it feeling fresh. My gametime is just 37h, but I'm only playing once or twice a week (mostly with a friend) and trying not to wear it out. I may end up buying the expansions when they come and "regenerating" back to level 1, but for now I'm done playing "watch the bars go up", so I'll stay at level 50 and just enjoy the game. The matchmaking update more than doubled my average k/d in the modes it's been added to, so I'm glad it's getting the necessary support. My biggest complaint is the irritating "connecting..." popup screen, because it will interrupt you while configuring your loadouts, when instead it could just be a "match status" notification in the corner. The burn card system is great, because they feel like built in cheats you can use to tweak the balance, but none of them ruin the game or make it a slippery-slope situation like kill-streak reward abilities do. The amount of customization in your pilot and titan kits also feels just right, and when I was first starting out I found myself frequently thinking about setups when I was away from the game.

    I loaded up Guild Wars 2 again to check out the big update, only to discover that with the new system the traits on my level 80 thief had been wiped (now they're free to respec), and I had no idea how to reassemble the character. For the generally amazing level of polish GW2 has, that was a rather shocking icewater-in-the-face kind of moment.

    This weekend I knocked Tank Universal off my backlog in around 6 hours. For the most part it's pretty good for a (nearly) one-man title. The bigger strategic battle sections are quite fun, but there are some "why bother with this" walkabout bits and an extraneous story-framing device, and it has a very strange interlude in which you ride a jumping sheep while a synthesized William Tell overture plays. I had a few crashes, but the biggest fault is that it's limited to 30 fps.

    I just grabbed Ultratron in this week's Groupee's bundle, and made it 3/4 of the way through on my first real attempt. Having to edit a text file to get my gamepad properly configured was a drag though. It's splashy and fun, but does not seem seriously compelling like Revenge of the Titans was. I'm now wondering if there's a quick-start or hard-mode or continuous replay or likewise available when you win. Edit: it does save post-boss checkpoints for you to restart at.
    Last edited by Bobtree; 21-04-2014 at 12:47 AM.

  12. #21032
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Well Tara, my veteran hardcore engineer in Torchlight 2, bit the icy bullet. Locked in place by ice and unable to act, I became fodder for various grotesque monsters that claimed my graphically broken mortal soul. Rest in peace Tara, I hardly knew ye.

    So I basically continued my battle mage non-hardcore character I started ages ago and had a bit of a laugh when I very quickly worked out that I saved at literally the same point in the dungeon my engineer died at. Ha! I then proceeded to die over and over to the boss because my battle mage is a brittle being. The subsequent boss, the finale of Act 1, also required a pit-stop death as my pitiful damage and meagre AoE damage provided a very clear image for the very idea of cherry tapping. It doesn't help that a lot of the melee-ranged magic abilities for the ember mage are based on weapon dps and my weapons are quickly becoming rather weak. I shall need to upgrade them soon. Tell you what though, it takes a lot out of the game when death is just a minor inconvenience as opposed to a main issue with your run.

    I'll certainly try a hardcore attempt again, maybe with the Outlander who I've had even less time on and it'd be fun to try something there. Main problem with my engineer was a complete lack of healing outside of potions (and a heal spell I picked up about half an hour before death) and my intermittently operational healing bot. That and my ranged damage was woefully lacking, even if I was justifying it by using a shield for defence, which did work quite well at least.
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  13. #21033
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Then I immediately know it's not a game I want to play, which is handy. "Puzzle bosses" really are a blight on game design IMO, the last thing I'd ever want to do is play a game designed around them.
    Pfft, spoken like someone who doesn't like puzzles.
    Most games are puzzles, in FEAR you learn the economy of crouching behind boxes while aiming down your scopes in slow motion. In Torchlight you learn the rhythm of sending your dog back home with all your crap. In every multiplayer game you learn how to sit on the top of the difficulty gradient when you meet an opponent. Everything else is twitch, pattern recall and dumb luck. But puzzles? Puzzles are play, puzzles are intellect, puzzles are beautiful.

    Bad puzzles are bad sure, but boss battles can be excellent puzzles.

    Gave a few hours to Kerbal Space Program Demo and was viscously rewarded. Honestly think I'd prefer vectorial controls to manual thrust but I get they are trying to achieve a Zen state of integration of player and game, where you care about what happens and feel it in your gut. It work well, probably better and better as you stop being terrible at the game. I Still struggle on the demo, but i think its the limitation of parts that's stopping my achieving the flexibility I'd like.

    Guess i need to buy the game.
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 21-04-2014 at 12:28 AM.
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  14. #21034
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Gave Diablo 2 a download and an install. I know it came out two years later, but WOW Divine Divnity aged a lot better than this game. Which is funny since Blizzard apparently released a patch in 2012. Couldn't be arsed to un-cap resolution though (the solution is to run it windowed and maximize the window, but it won't capture the cursor so you are basically fucked).

    So I decided to finally give Titan Quest a proper go. I made it about 10 minutes longer than any previous run, but this time I stopped because the character creation system reminded me of Din's Curse.

    Didn't make it to Din's Curse though, since Drox Operative called to me (what with all the discussion of the new ARcen game that has the exact same premise). MUCH harder than Din's, and a lot less balanced. VERY easy to fuck yourself over as the AIs have a tendency to field bullet sponges with quickly regenerating shields, whereas you are at the mercy of the RNG gods to give you usable gear. Fun, but not sure if I'll stick with it.
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  15. #21035
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Dins Curse is so painful on the eyes and hands, if only they could port their world over to Torchlight's engine.
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  16. #21036
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Dins Curse is so painful on the eyes and hands, if only they could port their world over to Torchlight's engine.
    Pretty much any ARPG could benefit from Torchlight's engine. The game lacks depth and all the classes feel fairly samey, but holy crap is it beautiful and responsive.

    I suppose Path of Exile is close, but it has much less of an emphasis on the "paper doll" and the like.
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  17. #21037
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Pfft, spoken like someone who doesn't like puzzles.
    I adore puzzles, but I don't enjoy puzzle bosses, because they aren't enjoyable puzzles. They're just dumb, high stress trial and error. There's no sense of satisfaction involved, merely relief at having gotten past an overtly unfair challenge. There's nothing fun about them.

    Bad puzzles are bad sure, but boss battles can be excellent puzzles.
    I've literally never, in the entirety of my time gaming, encountered a boss that I'd consider a good puzzle. I can't say for certain that such a thing doesn't exist, I can only say that I've never seen one.

  18. #21038
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    For those who were wondering (all none of you):

    I decided I don't have it in me to put up with Drox right now. Like any Soldak game, I love the concept and have no problem supporting the studio, but holy crap is the game flawed as hell. In this case, it is largely the fact that you are basically at the whim of the RNG gods in terms of what gear and what mandatory quests you get, as well as what faction randomly declares war on you because they are bored (Shadow, so I couldn't even fight them since they kept cloaking all the time). I suspect that if I do a lot of research and plan my build very carefully it should be better, but meh. Din's Curse is still their best game.

    But, after realizing I spent a significant part of my weekend bitching that Dungeon Siege 2's expansion pack isn't on Steam (although, now that I think about it, is DS1's?) and I have DS3 from a sale a while back, I decided to just play Dungeon Siege 3 since it is basically Dragon Age 2 with less bugs (seriously Bioware, Obsidian released a less buggy game...) and shittier storytelling (meh, I was gonna play Diablo 2, my bar is pretty low :p). Enjoying it thus far, even if it finally convinced me I wasted money on the Logitech F710 (the proportions are shitty and the triggers have way too much tension), so I am back to my 360 controller. Which reminds me I need to pick up some cyber clean (or something similar) since the controller is kind of grody.

    Seriously Bioware, how the fuck did Obsidian release something less buggy and broken?
    Also, fuck you to every single Diablo fan who says the solution to scaling issues is "lower your desktop resolution". Ironically, I think I'll try that when I only have my laptop (Linux, so wine) and PS4. Apparently it is easier to force scaling in a way that won't fuck with chrome and everything else because of how Linux/wine handles things.
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  19. #21039
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    So, I've been going back to Shogun 2, and in particular, the Fall of The Samurai expansion pack, which is in my opinion, the high point in the entire series.
    This reminds me that I really should get back into my AAR game (has it really been over a year?). I think I still have the save game.
    The Medallion of the Imperial Psychopath, a Napoleon: Total War AAR
    For the Emperor!, a Total War: Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai AAR

  20. #21040
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Zephro's Avatar
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    Fall of the Samurai is almost the height of the series, Barbarian Invasion in its time was better I think.

    Anyway just finished KOTOR2 with the restoration mod. It's still best described as nnnngggghhhhhhhhhhhhh! It's frustrating that such good writing and such an interesting take on the force and Star Wars is laden with bugs or weird problems where you get trapped killing Jedi despite being "light side". Argh so close!

    So back to replaying Torment.

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