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  1. #22421
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_No View Post
    I'm currently hacking and slashing my way through Torchlight 1, but it's something I can only play for a few hours every few weeks/months, it seems. I've finished Diablo 1 and 2 multiple times, but I'm seriously starting to question how many of these games one can play in a lifetime without going crazy. It's very much a "if you've played one, you've played them all"-genre.
    Oh, totally. I enjoy PoE, really I do, but at the same time I would love to write that "theory" up as a proper opinion piece. Though God knows if any website would actually publish it given it would have to be a case of "These games are bad and if you like them you should feel bad". That's not bad, bad, not exactly, but... Christ, they're Skinner boxes writ large and nothing else, they're a never-ending treadmill of bigger numbers, more fireworks going off, more enemies, and steadily sillier names on all the treasure you collect.

    They're almost literally just clicking on things, none of them have any proper structure to encourage you to actually develop any real skill with them - PoE's difficulty curve is ridiculously borked - there is no reason to bother learning how to use elemental resistances other than surviving hardcore mode, for example. And on that note God forbid any of them actually find creative ways to punish you for Doing It Wrong beyond the tired old standby of YOU DIED, NOW START AGAIN. FROM SCRATCH. YEAH, YOU HEARD. Blizzard's approach of "It's cool, we heard you, it's cool - now everything's a Legendary item!" is a bloody Oprah meme made flesh, for God's sake. If your player base can be sated by just telling them "You're all amazing!" ten, a hundred, a thousand times more often then doesn't that suggest something is seriously, seriously wrong with your game under the hood, on a fundamental level?

    But I'm as culpable as the next player (though again, I don't go clicking on things in just any old game) and I have no real ideas off the top of my head on how to "fix" things and Blizzard are rolling in money so... I dunno, I guess. But it is a serious concern, IMO. You can talk about how all FPS games are basically the same et al but that sort of criticism really isn't the same thing, not to me.
    Last edited by Eight Rooks; 11-07-2014 at 03:34 PM.
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  2. #22422
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eight Rooks View Post
    they're Skinner boxes writ large and nothing else
    I view them more as complicated optimization problems in which the data-gathering process is a mildly entertaining game. I imagine this is why I view the Diablolikes that try to incorporate more than a little "player skill" to the genre as Dangerous And Wrong.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  3. #22423
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Bastion pushed this even further for me, shortform, fitness combat, curated weapons, meaningful narrative, play with a controller or m+km play with no pixel hunting(no more clicking on tiny sprites/polys under time pressure), no more funking pointless time sinks (crafting/disassembling/grinding/mining/fishing).

    Whether I deal revenge damage 2.5% and soak 1% or revenge damage 1% and soak 2.5% is not a meaningful decision and I'd respect developer who more often acknowledged that.

    Ooh, this hat gets me 5% more iron when mining, that's different.

    Edit: Thank you auto correct
    Last edited by Heliocentric; 11-07-2014 at 04:00 PM.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  4. #22424
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    Absolutely. Although the whole arpg / top down shooter has always been kind of a slight distinction anyways, Bastion made me not want to play ARPGs for a long while. Also LoL / Dota 2; they have very similar gameplay to an arpg, but are far more interesting when it comes together.

    I think Hyperlight Drifter might break me out of my spell though. That game looks good.

  5. #22425
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Space Rangers 2 wrecked all assumptions by hiding a top down shooter inside a top down (turn based) RPG and a text adventure and a RTS AND a trading game and a puzzle game and a- [sound fades]
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  6. #22426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Gosh, shamed publicly, I need to challenge your score.
    While I, on the other hand, am not so bad. :D

    edit: Should have scrolled down first...
    Last edited by mrki; 11-07-2014 at 07:43 PM.

  7. #22427
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Finally got "Summoner" to work in windowed mode (thanks to some nifty little tool called dxwnd which allows you to run almost any older game in a window), meaning that the characters don't look like wobbly cheese people. I remember having played that game ages ago and man, the visuals haven't aged so well. But it's still fun to hack and slash my way through hordes of silly looking 3D monsters.

    Anyone who's ever played this game will remember this guy:

    screen024.jpg

    Yeah, he's a charmer...
    Forum janitor in training.

  8. #22428
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    I view them more as complicated optimization problems in which the data-gathering process is a mildly entertaining game. I imagine this is why I view the Diablolikes that try to incorporate more than a little "player skill" to the genre as Dangerous And Wrong.
    This has certainly always been my take on them as well. Optimizing stats and builds is where all the fun is, the clicking is sort of incidental.
    Last edited by vinraith; 11-07-2014 at 08:26 PM.

  9. #22429
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I'd play Dangerous and Wrong.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  10. #22430
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    I'd play Dangerous and Wrong.
    Why isn't someone making a game by with that title right now?

  11. #22431
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    Quote Originally Posted by L_No View Post
    It's very much a "if you've played one, you've played them all"-genre.
    Quitting Diablo 2 felt like such a relief-- which is exactly how it felt to quit Dark Age of Camelot. And many games since. (You'd think I'd learn.)

    Especially these days, there are so many F2P MMORPGs that I'd never pay money for a Diablo-like. They scratch the same itch, and those F2Ps are so easy to quit, as long as you refuse to spend any money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Ooh, this hat gets me 5% more iron when mining, that's different.
    I'm shocked at all of the developers that would never dream of using procedural generation to create their levels-- something that has been proven to be interesting and work, something that replaces many hundreds or thousands of person-hours of works-- yet use this most basic form of procedural generation of loot, which then tastes suspiciously of carob. I've got to shout-out to ToME here for having so many individually crafted artifacts, and also for laying the code bare, so that you can see exactly how easy it is do things the right way.

  12. #22432
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    That's better.
    Can't help but notice your skull count, you have everything unlocked and fully upgraded already I take it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrki View Post
    While I, on the other hand, am not so bad. :D
    You also had excellent scores in BIT.Trip Runner2.
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  13. #22433
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Can't help but notice your skull count, you have everything unlocked and fully upgraded already I take it?
    I reset and buy what I'm using, I probably have about 500-600 skulls.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  14. #22434
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    Getting back into Knights of the Old Republic for some nostalgia and of course hacking people with lightsabers and toasting them with various force powers.

    Can anyone recommend a good RTS for me to play? I haven't gotten a new one in ages and while I do love CoH, Command & Conquer, etc. I want something new to sink my teeth into

  15. #22435
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    I seem to have only short periods available atm so I am playing Dead Man's Draw which I picked up for 1.70 early in June. It's not a bad little time filler, no multi-player though.

  16. #22436
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Why isn't someone making a game by with that title right now?
    Dangerous And Wrong PC Elitists In Trouble!
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  17. #22437
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    I Clouseaued my way through the last few bits of Antichamber that I hadn't uncovered so now I have the map wall fully filled out.

  18. #22438
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    Due Process seems cool.
    post in progress

  19. #22439
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    Just finished the final chapter of The Wolf Among Us, and then restarted the entire thing from chapter one and replayed it through again to try out a few different things and see how it felt as one piece versus over extended time.

    I think in large part the exercise proved to me that in the case of TWAU versus TWD that the condensed game-play suited it far better given the nature of the series as a Noirish detective story versus that of the ongoing travails of survivors living through a zombie apocalypse.

    Albeit TWAU started off strong with it's opening chapter it suffered somewhat with the staggering of the follow ups given the operators of time frame within the narrative (the entire storyline takes place over a matter of days) and consequently they felt rather disjointed as singular episodes. As a whole though, the experience is much improved and makes for a pretty enjoyable experience, that though it might not quite hit the high bar set by TWDs excellent first season in terms of the writing is still pretty effective and does a good job in bringing Bill Willinghams characters to life. Here is hoping for a second season.

    Minor quibble would be that at least on the 360 controller I found some of the action sequences a tad tricky (for some reason hammering A on the pad is less effective than pressing Q on the keyboard) but nothing too egregious.

    Recommended (8/10)

  20. #22440
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Battlefield 4 just started a month of celebration and festivities:

    We are aware that the Battlefest 2XP event has not launched. As we look into the issue we ask that you remain patient. Please stay tuned for more updates.

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