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  1. #3161
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Miss out on what exactly? It's not like Baldur's Gate is full of companion quests and banter like its sequel.
    I was actually going to mention that in my post seeing as the BG1 characters don't do anything. My counterargument is only that, for some people, there is a sense of depth which comes from having (some of) the same companions in BG1 as in BG2 such that it enhances the experience of both. Of course this supposes the player intends to play through both the games, has the right mindset or wants to role-play to such an extent. It's kind of a weak argument but for my part having Jaheria, Edwin and Imoen in my parties throughout both games lent an undefinable quality to the experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizardry View Post
    Well, I'm not so sure about this. I tend to play through Icewind Dale with only two characters these days.
    It's because of the nice balance that you can do anything from a solo run to a full-party one in IWD without there being a twisted difficulty curve. Small party or solo games of BG1 require quite a carefully constructed party else they can be very frustrating.

  2. #3162
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    My party in BG physically attacked one another due to alignment differences. That's gotta' count for something.

  3. #3163
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    My party in BG physically attacked one another due to alignment differences. That's gotta' count for something.
    Ahh, the BG Tweak pack is a wonderful thing

  4. #3164
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    Ahh, the BG Tweak pack is a wonderful thing
    I'm pretty sure that could happen in vanilla. Hell, I'm pretty sure I had that happen in vanilla.

  5. #3165
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    I'm pretty sure that could happen in vanilla. Hell, I'm pretty sure I had that happen in vanilla.
    It did. I remember an old game called Ishar having something like that, but more complex and less scripted. From the wiki:

    It also featured a unique system to change the lineup of player characters: the player can have up to five characters at the same time, but each one will like or dislike his comrades. These preferences come into play when the player tries to recruit or dismiss a character, because the other characters will then vote for or against the recruitment or dismissal. If a character cannot be dismissed by a vote, it is possible for the player to have him assassinated by another character, but there is a risk that other characters will murder the murderer himself, possibly creating a chain of murders that slays the whole party but one.

  6. #3166
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    I'm pretty sure that could happen in vanilla. Hell, I'm pretty sure I had that happen in vanilla.
    I was actually referring to how the Tweak pack gives an option to turn that stuff off, along with people leaving due to very high/low reputation. I think it was the Tweak pack anyway, either that or the Fixpack or Unfinished Business.

  7. #3167
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    I was actually referring to how the Tweak pack gives an option to turn that stuff off, along with people leaving due to very high/low reputation. I think it was the Tweak pack anyway, either that or the Fixpack or Unfinished Business.
    Ah, now I understand. Why would a party of severely mixed alignment be a desirable thing to keep artificially stable? I mean, a chaotic evil character really IS liable to try to kill your paladin after all.

  8. #3168
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    I've become a pirate... No not like that.
    In SP&Z I was so mindful to not upset people needlessly. I could easily pop open the science station to get all that delicious research. But no, I will go mine resources and find a tech 3 civilian mining base and syphon off the resources.

    When I got the upgraded clockwork something switched in my brain, you need the utility slots for point defence guns, tractor beams become a luxury. Suddenly you have this enormous appetite for goons and rez and killing for tech really is so much easier than mining.

    Now just to find a station with twin barrelled turrets.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  9. #3169
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Ah, now I understand. Why would a party of severely mixed alignment be a desirable thing to keep artificially stable? I mean, a chaotic evil character really IS liable to try to kill your paladin after all.
    Yeah... basically taking a video game character and removing the undesirable traits to make a perfect obedient slave (and noone tell me the personality isn't affected, if characters are prevented from acting on their established traits then they're damn well affected) doesn't appeal to me. I mean fair enough it's not Baldur's Gate 2 where the character interactions practically ARE the game, however we're still talking about a story-driven RPG here. If anything I'd of thought D&D fans would create mods to expand on these explosive party politics even further!
    Last edited by Drake Sigar; 01-02-2012 at 05:54 PM.

  10. #3170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    I mean fair enough it's not Baldur's Gate 2 where the character interactions practically ARE the game, however we're still talking about a story-driven RPG here.
    Hmmmmmmmm.

  11. #3171
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drake Sigar View Post
    Yeah... basically taking a video game character and removing the undesirable traits to make a perfect obedient slave (and noone tell me the personality isn't affected, if characters are prevented from acting on their established traits then they're damn well affected) doesn't appeal to me. I mean fair enough it's not Baldur's Gate 2 where the character interactions practically ARE the game, however we're still talking about a story-driven RPG here. If anything I'd of thought D&D fans would create mods to expand on these explosive party politics even further!
    Fundamentally the problem is the Reputation system those games had. The evil people will quite happily join you to end a variety of evils plaguing the Sword Coast in and, so long as you murder an innocent every so often for the reputation hit, will never complain. Or you could have a party of do-gooders where you complete every quest in the most dickish way possible but then so long as you swing by the nearest church and donate some gold you're fine.

    I prefer to pretend that no one in my party would disrespect the authority of the leader such that they would start inter-party fights, and that they would wouldn't leave once they realised just how rich & powerful they were getting. This rationale easily fits for Edwin and Tiax (who just want power), Eldoth and Kagain (money). Montaron and Xzar have their own agenda which is furthered by sticking with you, while Shar-Teel is impressed by your power. Also, I imagine Korgan will be satisfied just by the amount of people we're killing, and Viconia never really fit an evil role anyway. None of them have established traits that get in the way.
    I use the mod such that it still allows for inter party bickering but otherwise there is no way for characters to go off in a sulk or suddenly start a fight apropos fucking nothing.

    You want disfunctional parties? Play Neverwinter Nights 2 or KOTOR 2 or even (briefly) Dragon Age.

  12. #3172
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    I am playing Jack Orlando at the moment. It is pretty bad.
    I'm not really good with adventure games although i played a quite few of them and I really like them but the game so far is such a nonsense I just gave up and read walkthrough as I play it so I can say i beat it.

    I mean: illogical puzzle such as giving a neighbor woman a spoon you found in jail is weird enough. Not having a frigging clue what to do next and being forced to practically click everything on everyone all the time is just not acceptable. even with me sucking in this genre.
    also i found out a crypt with hidden switches, magic books (in 'noir' game?) hidden behind restaurant which looks like from sam and max (and with 50 inches flatscreen tvs in 1933)

    bad game it is :)

  13. #3173
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    Fundamentally the problem is the Reputation system those games had. The evil people will quite happily join you to end a variety of evils plaguing the Sword Coast in and, so long as you murder an innocent every so often for the reputation hit, will never complain. Or you could have a party of do-gooders where you complete every quest in the most dickish way possible but then so long as you swing by the nearest church and donate some gold you're fine.
    That's just gameplay and story segregation, and while it's inevitably the result of (arguably bad) game design, we at least try to eliminate it.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  14. #3174
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    That's just gameplay and story segregation
    I don't see how it is.

  15. #3175
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    I mean: illogical puzzle such as giving a neighbor woman a spoon you found in jail is weird enough. Not having a frigging clue what to do next and being forced to practically click everything on everyone all the time is just not acceptable.
    The Longest Journey has some bizarre moon logic puzzles as well. Because, as you know, while it is a very common practice to make fishing poles out of string, hose clamps, and inflatable duck buoys with slow leaks, it's unfortunately something that I've never done personally.

  16. #3176
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Having given up on Time Gentlemen, Please! (hilarious though it may be) I'm left wondering if there's any adventure game on Earth whose puzzles aren't complete shit.

  17. #3177
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Having given up on Time Gentlemen, Please! (hilarious though it may be) I'm left wondering if there's any adventure game on Earth whose puzzles aren't complete shit.
    Keepsake.

    Yeah, Keepsake... *Polite cough*


  18. #3178
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    This is from Gamespot's review of Gemini Rue

    With a few exceptions, the solution to any puzzle is obvious and never impedes your progress. The puzzles simply guide you through the action of what is essentially an interactive novel. This means you're never saddled with frustrations, such as attempting obtuse, trial-and-error item combinations or pixel hunting for a tiny key hidden in a busy background. However, this also means that the game slips into monotony at times as you go through the motions of its clearly prescribed path to the next plot point.
    Though that does make me somewhat cautious of those 'few exceptions', it sounds promising.

  19. #3179
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kodeen View Post
    This is from Gamespot's review of Gemini Rue
    Though that does make me somewhat cautious of those 'few exceptions', it sounds promising.
    Yeah, Heliocentric mentioned that one awhile back in this capacity, now that you mention it.

  20. #3180
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vinraith View Post
    Yeah, Heliocentric mentioned that one awhile back in this capacity, now that you mention it.
    I did, to paraphrase.
    "The only adventure game where I played it without needing an FAQ", really the whole genre is riddled with a cancerous case of "guess what the developers are thinking", Gemini Rue just outright tells you if you ask(talk to people examine sensible things) , but it also carries multiple paths to win.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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