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  1. #17001
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    100%ed Hotline Miami, okay maybe 99% there are a few environmental masks I missed but I did the alt ending which was in my mind not quite crazy enough, but I guess it's fair that there was a tonal shift.

    Why did nobody tell me HM was a stealth game? Okay, sure you can often make do if you get spotted but the stealth was a key element to the game for me.

    Interested to see where they take a sequel.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  2. #17002
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    I've always seen HM as, essentially, Super Meat Boy: learn the level, plan the route, execute without error.

    Well, except SMB was better because it didn't have random elements that kind of ruin that mechanic.

  3. #17003
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Well, except SMB was better because it didn't have random elements that kind of ruin that mechanic.
    See, I don't see the emergence as a negative. I despise SMB because it's practically an extensive quick time event. Whereas HM is an environment where you have to observe and interact.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
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  4. #17004
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    Fair enough. It's just weird to me they created an "arcade" game with high scores, etc. and then introduced such a large random element.

  5. #17005
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Eight Rooks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    See, I don't see the emergence as a negative. I despise SMB because it's practically an extensive quick time event. Whereas HM is an environment where you have to observe and interact.
    But - despite what the developers claim - the rules for each environment make no sense, and can change completely or bug out without any warning. Oh, how I hated Hotline Miami. That and Torchlight II are the only games where I reviewed them higher than I really wanted to because I felt everyone loved them so I wasn't allowed to object.

    To be fair, I say can, I'd assume the bugs have been patched out by this point (I'd bloody well hope so). Still, God almighty how they drove me near insane with raaaaeeeeeg at the time. A special place for thee in hell, Cactus, for the way enemies could land on your head for no reason at all, meaning you were fine until you moved at which point they'd kill you instantly with no chance to react. Also, the sadistic tendency of games to demand one thing of you to the point of pathological obsession, then switch back and demand the total opposite out of sheer bloody-mindedness (the motorcycle boss) can't get written out of game design fast enough.

  6. #17006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eight Rooks View Post
    Oh, how I hated Hotline Miami. That and Torchlight II are the only games where I reviewed them higher than I really wanted to because I felt everyone loved them so I wasn't allowed to object.
    Unless you work full time as a gaming journalist and must support your unemployed wife AND your kid has leukemia, you are a failure as a human being.

  7. #17007
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Eight Rooks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Unless you work full time as a gaming journalist and must support your unemployed wife AND your kid has leukemia, you are a failure as a human being.
    Meh, says you (because of course you do). They were both clearly very competent in any number of ways, so if everyone wanted to fawn over the stuff they did right then fine, so be it, it wasn't worth the hassle just to be accused of being contrary. I could argue the dungeon crawler in general is an irreperably broken genre, much like the point and click adventure, but a Torchlight II review didn't seem the place for that when I knew full well all anyone wanted to hear was "Yay! It's the anti-Diablo 3! Die, bad Blizzard, die!" Ditto Hotline Miami - sure, it was a super-stylish, queasily gratifying action game made by two dudes on a tiny, tiny budget, which was also riddled with bugs and cursed with far too many senseless, poorly designed gameplay moments. People want to hear "Yay indies!", not "Save your money", and I wasn't in the mood to argue. I praised the good bits for anyone that wanted to hear it, and I mentioned the flaws as I saw them - it wasn't a case of ho noes, I r being forced to lie through my teef (and for money? Hah!), I just wish I'd hammered both games a little more, and had the courage to ask for them to be knocked down a grade. But I learnt, I moved on, I doubt anyone's really that bothered.

  8. #17008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eight Rooks View Post
    I could argue the dungeon crawler in general is an irreperably broken genre, much like the point and click adventure
    I'd love to hear that argument, no sarcasm.

  9. #17009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    Unless you work full time as a gaming journalist and must support your unemployed wife AND your kid has leukemia, you are a failure as a human being.
    Wait, weren't you arguing a little while back that reviewing games should be more of a technical exercise, and that subjective stuff should be left out of it? I may have a) the poster and b) your argument mixed up, but that's what my brain is telling me.

    It just sounds like that's what he was doing (and I may be misrepresenting Eight Rooks also. Perfectly competently put together games he happened not to like, reviewed well.

  10. #17010
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    The last of us on my PS3. Please don't rage on me.

  11. #17011
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    Quote Originally Posted by arathain View Post
    Wait, weren't you arguing a little while back that reviewing games should be more of a technical exercise, and that subjective stuff should be left out of it?
    I argued that videogames should be looked at more as games - that is, mainly their mechanics should be considered, rather than their story, or characters, or agenda, or whether they made the reviewer cry at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by 008bond
    The last of us
    Speak of the devil, a perfect example of a videogame that was judged for every quality but its mechanics.

  12. #17012
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Played a bit of the new Splinter Cell's co-op. Is fun. Feels like Conviction with a bit more emphasis on stealth. I'll probably pick it up when it is on sale (not sure if PS3 or PC though)

    Ran through CodBlops2: Blop Harder last night. Honestly, I am REALLY glad that the lead devs in Infinity Ward threw hissy fits and jumped ship again. Playing through the Modern Warfares they were involved in, it was always the same game, just with even less interaction and even more set pieces every time. Treyarch may not reach the same highs, but they learn from what the community wants (at least, on the SP side). Was fun to have a CoD where I could make decisions that impacted the story (albeit, to a very small degree) and where most of the coolest stuff in the game was me playing it (without feeling like I need to focus on prompts to do the QTEs, as there weren't all that many).
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  13. #17013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mohorovicic View Post
    I argued that videogames should be looked at more as games - that is, mainly their mechanics should be considered, rather than their story, or characters, or agenda, or whether they made the reviewer cry at the end..
    Which is obviously much more important than whether or not it's an enjoyable experience or not. I think we should judge books on their technical prowess too. Good font, nice quality paper, solid cover. 8/10.

  14. #17014
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Which is obviously much more important than whether or not it's an enjoyable experience or not. I think we should judge books on their technical prowess too. Good font, nice quality paper, solid cover. 8/10.
    Strawman argument = -10 Internets...

    His point is that a GAME should be judged on it's mechanics - on it's rules and the implementation of said rules - and I'd agree with that completely.

    Enjoyment has NOTHING to do with games - it has quite a lot to do with TOYS but not really with games (it's probably the defining difference between a toy and a game, in fact).

    The issue is that we use the term 'game' quite widely here - many of the things being considered are not 'games' in the traditional sense, they just look like things which are games and so we generalise.

    Your argument makes no sense tho - none whatsoever - so as I said, -10 Internets.

    As for the original post - far too many people who call themselves 'reviewers' are really just posting their own, highly subjective, opinions. Whilst that's fine - it's NOT reviewing and people need to realise the difference.

    A 'review' should not touch on subjective issues or issues likely to change of time (such as pricing) - no harm is discussing things like narrative etc. but you have to keep it reasonably objective if you're writing a 'review'.
    Last edited by trjp; 05-09-2013 at 02:34 PM.

  15. #17015
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    Quote Originally Posted by trjp View Post
    Strawman argument = -10 Internets...

    His point is that a GAME should be judged on it's mechanics - on it's rules and the implementation of said rules - and I'd agree with that completely.

    Enjoyment has NOTHING to do with games - it has quite a lot to do with TOYS but not really with games (it's probably the defining difference between a toy and a game, in fact).

    The issue is that we use the term 'game' quite widely here - many of the things being considered are not 'games' in the traditional sense, they just look like things which are games and so we generalise.

    Your argument makes no sense tho - none whatsoever - so as I said, -10 Internets.
    I'd hate to play games you like, if enjoyment isn't considered a primary factor.

  16. #17016
    In regards to Torchlight 2, i also found it quite boring. But hey, i find almost any ARPG like diablo boring.
    The only ones which i REALLY liked were Sacred and The adventures of Van Helsing. The latter especially, i don't know why, maybe because of the combat or the monsters, but i like it a lot more than Torchlight 2.

  17. #17017
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    I'd hate to play games you like, if enjoyment isn't considered a primary factor.
    I agree whole heartedly with this statement.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  18. #17018
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Which is obviously much more important than whether or not it's an enjoyable experience or not. I think we should judge books on their technical prowess too. Good font, nice quality paper, solid cover. 8/10.
    Ooh! Ooh! Don't forget consistency and frequency of release. Fuck Harper Lee, we have Dan Brown.
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  19. #17019
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Ooh! Ooh! Don't forget consistency and frequency of release. Fuck Harper Lee, we have Dan Brown.
    Does that make Stephen King the CoD or Fifa or the book world?
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  20. #17020
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    I'd hate to play games you like, if enjoyment isn't considered a primary factor.
    No shit. Sounds like someone needs Calvinball in their life.
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