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  1. #17041
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Say, for example, I review football manager 40k
    In the dark future of the 41'st millennium there is only foot to ball.
    I'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
    http://playingitwrong.wordpress.com/

  2. #17042
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I read many a PC Gamer article that was exactly that, and they were some of the most entertaining of all to read because of the sheer force of snark brought upon such an unwanted stab at professionalism. They are also the likeliest to be insightful because you don't always want a fan of the genre or franchise to be the one who reviews it.
    We might well be talking about the same reviews, because that's exactly what I had in mind :)

  3. #17043
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    Reviews from writers outside their preferred genres can be very informative, if they're upfront about it. It's a fresh perspective from someone who doesn't take the genre tropes as given and will question things a fan wouldn't even notice. If I want to try something a little different from what I'm used to there is often no more useful review.

    It wouldn't be a review that would be all that useful to a genre fan (although it might still be really interesting and entertaining). If the reviewer let you know their experience level at the start it's not an issue, so you can search for a different opinion.

  4. #17044
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    entertaining
    Obviously the entertainment derived from reading a review is not too strongly related to whether it is useful as a review.

    I repeat: Such reviews are also the likeliest to be insightful because you don't always want a fan of the genre or franchise to be the one who reviews it.
    This smells of nonsense most of the time, at least the "genre" part. We could take it it its "logical" conclusion and replace 'the genre or franchise' with 'video games' and we'd have something that is clearly bollocks, after all.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  5. #17045
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    Quote Originally Posted by arathain View Post
    It wouldn't be a review
    You could stop the sentence there really. It'd be writing about playing video games, which is an entirely worthy thing to write articles about, but it wouldn't really be a review.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  6. #17046
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arathain View Post
    It wouldn't be a review that would be all that useful to a genre fan
    Sure it would, because "is this the game that's right for me" is not always directed towards genre fans - they pretty much already know what they're going to buy or not buy. It informs people whether they will be interested in the genre and it gives genre fans a much-needed wake-up call that they've been so deep in the inner workings of their niche that they forgot what the greater world looks like.

    Just as we pity and snark over the limited scope of CoD or Madden fanboys, we should also pity and snark over the limited scope of MOBA or MMO junkies.

    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    This smells of nonsense most of the time, at least the "genre" part. We could take it it its "logical" conclusion and replace 'the genre or franchise' with 'video games' and we'd have something that is clearly bollocks, after all.
    Bullshit, NathanH.

    When the NYTimes or Forbes or the Guardian take a look at our subculture of gaming, they are doing a double service: They are informing people whether they want to be gamers, and they are informing gamers whether they want to be people. Those are some of the most important reviews of all.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  7. #17047
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Those are some of the most important reviews of all.
    Importance, like entertainment, of a review is not going to be particularly linked to whether a review is a good review.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  8. #17048
    I think that there should be a difference between enjoyment and objective reviewing. For example let's say i enjoyed Skyrim and Bioshock Infinite very much, i played bot of them a lot. If i were to make a subjective review based on my "enjoyment" of these games it would probably be a 9 or a 10.
    But from an objective point of view they all had their problems, bugs and stuff that are just stupid (like Skyrim being broken if you use smithing/lackluster perk system/magic system or Infinite having the same faces for some characters that speak to you/lackluster abilities).
    I think this is what the problem is between subjective and objective reviews about games. IMO most sites should probably have 2 scores, an objective score that looks into how the game plays, the depth of the world, it's rules and bugs and another one that is based on how much they enjoyed the game. Mainly because some people enjoy different stuff, for example I liked oblivion more that Skyrim, mostly because it has more unique quests and i like the world better, but Skyrim does have a better combat/leveling system. So for people who enjoy quests and exploring Oblivion is better and for the ones who enjoy combat Skyrim is better.

  9. #17049
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnderwaterCacty View Post
    but Skyrim does have a better combat/leveling system. So for people who enjoy quests and exploring Oblivion is better and for the ones who enjoy combat Skyrim is better.
    Well, here lies the danger of trying to be "objective", since I like the combat in Oblivion better and the exploring in Skyrim better, and I think I could justify this were I writing a review. The "objectiveness" objective that reviews should strive for is not this idea of saying "it's definitely good at xyz but definitely bad at abc" but rather attempt to assess what each element is trying to achieve and whether it achieves this, and whether it's worth attempting to achieve. This is inherently subjective because you're thinking "what you reckon", but at least you're trying to do it systematically and honestly and openly.
    Last edited by NathanH; 05-09-2013 at 08:03 PM.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  10. #17050
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    I read RPS mainly because I like the way they review games. It's a Wot I think, not a Wot this game is because I am telling you and I'm sooooo objective cuz I'm a games journalist.

    They describe how they feel when playing the game, what bothered them and what they liked about the game. You get an idea of what the game is based on their feelings. Sometimes I will read a review that praise a game, but still won't play it because the aspect of the game that they liked the most is something I normally hate with a passion. I'm trying to stay open-minded and try to see what the reviewer liked in a game.

    For example, I know I'm personnaly done with FPShooters until they can create something I've never seen before mechanically wise. I don't care if Far Cry 3 world was open, it's the same boring kill with bullets the bad guys. That is my opinion, I know a lot of people don't feel that way, i don't claim I'm superior or that I know something they don't. That is simply my opinion, if I was doing a review of the game, it would probably be a bad review because the gameplay didn't appeal to me, I find it tedious. I can be objective and say that this part of the game is good, that part was nice, I liked that because... But still, I didn't like the game.

    What I want when I read a review is why do you say that the world is open? Why do you say the game is immersive? You can't put a ''score'' on art.

  11. #17051
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Importance, like entertainment, of a review is not going to be particularly linked to whether a review is a good review.
    What the fuck are you talking about?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  12. #17052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Sure it would, because "is this the game that's right for me" is not always directed towards genre fans - they pretty much already know what they're going to buy or not buy. It informs people whether they will be interested in the genre and it gives genre fans a much-needed wake-up call that they've been so deep in the inner workings of their niche that they forgot what the greater world looks like.

    .
    Which is sort of what I was trying to get across. But u r mor wurdy.

  13. #17053
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked View Post
    if I was doing a review of the game, it would probably be a bad review because the gameplay didn't appeal to me, I find it tedious. I can be objective and say that this part of the game is good, that part was nice, I liked that because... But still, I didn't like the game.
    Since you sound like you've played rather a lot of FPS games and at some point enjoyed them, you ought to be able to have a shot at analyzing whether the game would hit the right buttons for someone who still likes FPS games. You'd also be well-placed to assess whether this particular game is bringing anything new to the table. You'd be able to say some words about the game not being enough to reignite the spark that you used to have. Your most challenging task would probably be to try to decide whether the new things in the game would be interesting to people who still liked FPS games. But of course either this is the problem or the reverse is the problem: if you still like FPS games you'd find it difficult to assess whether the new elements would be enough to excite people who find FPS games a bit stale, so it's not like you can ever escape this.

    You'd also probably find it hard to give it a score that would be useful to potential purchasers, but in a sensible world you'd be allowed to decline to give a score if you didn't feel comfortable with it.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  14. #17054
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    Video games are evolving rapidly as a medium. This lead to a funny inflation of review scores. Somewhat over ten years ago Unreal 2 came out. Do you remember that one? Probably not, it's a very forgettable game but at the time it got crazy reviews even though it became obsolete within a year.
    Review scores are bad and lazy.
    to wound the autumnal city.

  15. #17055
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heliocentric View Post
    Fuck scores in reviews though. There are 6/10's that are 'essential reading' and 9/10's that are completely redundant.
    Kafka, Franz: The Trial.
    6/10, buggy and unfinished, with dated graphics due to development delays.

  16. #17056
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Kafka, Franz: The Trial.
    6/10, buggy and unfinished, with dated graphics due to development delays.
    It's also a terrible port from the original German.

  17. #17057
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Since you sound like you've played rather a lot of FPS games and at some point enjoyed them, you ought to be able to have a shot at analyzing whether the game would hit the right buttons for someone who still likes FPS games.
    That opinion would still be subjective because I think like that in relation to that particular group of people.

  18. #17058
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    Video games are evolving rapidly as a medium. This lead to a funny inflation of review scores. Somewhat over ten years ago Unreal 2 came out. Do you remember that one? Probably not, it's a very forgettable game but at the time it got crazy reviews even though it became obsolete within a year.
    Review scores are bad and lazy.
    How can any game be considered obsolete? Unless you're talking about sports games that only get graphical improvement and roster updates, every game is different enough from all the others that they can all be considered an addition to the medium. To say that a game is obsolete would mean that there is something out there that does exactly the same thing, only better in every way. Unreal 2 was middling in just about every respect, but I remember it about as well as Far Cry. I would not argue that it is worth your time, but it definitely has merit as a creative work. I know I'm being a hopeless optimist, but you're kind of discrediting the value of video games in general.

  19. #17059
    America's Army: Proving Grounds Beta. It's a slower shooter than most out there, and really gives important tactic choices. And for free! Just had a blast with a really cooperating team, 12vs12. I suck, most of the time, but I enjoy it nevertheless. It has some tense and/or frustrating moments, too.

  20. #17060
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    Not only is the idea of a totally objective review of game mechanics kind of impossible due to the subjective nature of it all, it would also be unbelievably fucking boring. Since we cannot reject the subjective experiences of games and the broader contexts they exist in, why try to deny it? May as well embrace it and write something interesting that goes deeper than a simple description followed by a number out of ten.

    Anyway, still playing Saint's Row III, continues to get more ridiculous, somehow.

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