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  1. #17781
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaftPunk View Post
    Say what ever you want but i'm quite enjoying Mafia 2.
    Yeah, I don't really see peoples problem with it? It was quite fun! And visually, it was a treat throughout. A very atmospheric city, especially in winter.

  2. #17782
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    I was frankly disappointed with Portal 2. I loved the story, characters but the gameplay? It was such a letdown compared to Portal 1.
    It was so extremely linear. You could not mess around with portals like you could in first game. There was pretty much one solution with each step being predicted by designers.
    First game had plenty of spaces where you could put a portal allowing you some very creative solutions to presented problems. It also contained challenges like completing it as fast as possible or with the least amount of portals.
    that stuff is not possible in second game. Everything is restricted...

    therefore the game is only decent. Definitely not brilliant.
    I was disappointed with Portal 2 as well, but I don't understand your reason for being disappointed. Portal 1 was also quite linear and short of exploiting bugs in the physics engine there really isn't much you can do that's "creative" no matter how creative it feels. I would argue, instead, that the puzzle design in Portal 2 (co-op excepting) is simply easier. It feels more linear because you aren't learning new mechanics and the game is afraid of frustrating players--rightly so, it's a difficult thing to balance. Portal 1 was teaching players to think with an entirely new set of mechanics while Portal 2 tried to squeeze that part into a shorter time scale so as not to be overly boring for returning players which meant they also had to make later puzzles easier than would be ideal since new players got less time to grok the systems than they did in portal 1 which has the side effect of making returning players feel a little more bored and ... well ... it's a mess.

    It was a tough design challenge, and they decided to paper over their good-faith attempt with writing and voice acting and general charm. Which, for a lot of people, worked perfectly. For me? The lackluster something-for-everyone puzzle design left me feeling left out whereas in Portal 1 the entire game was an impeccably designed tutorial for the last few puzzles--which was great becauseI was at the appropriate skill level for the pacing the whole portals thing being new to me.

    Co-op saw some real puzzles. Real clever stuff that felt more like Portal 1 in the design space of Portal 2--new mechanics and all--and with a second player to account for. It taught you at a good pace, and introduced genuinely befuddling challenges that made you feel like a creative wizard for solving them even though you were figuring it out pretty much exactly how it was planned.

    Very few puzzles actually allow for "creative" solution. This is the nature of a puzzle. It has a small number of valid solutions. It's difficult to create an environment in which puzzles are practically solvable, challenging, and allow for "creative" solutions. Space Chem is a nice example of such an environment.

    But in general, that's not how puzzles work. Creative people might be better at solving them, but the solutions are carefully designed. Intended. It makes for a poor puzzle if it's too open ended! Exceptions such as Space Chem aside. Some puzzles have multiple solutions of varying "difficulty" but good designers tend to avoid that trap--one player's difficulty is not another's and your "harder" "more creative" puzzle solution might just be giving half your player base an easier shortcut to the "proper" solution. Sometimes it's better to just let that same half find some of your puzzles easy in their entirety rather than cripple all of your puzzles.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 15-10-2013 at 03:26 AM.
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  3. #17783
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    So after many hours of playing DOTA 2, I thought it was about time I got back to trying to resolve my backlog and continued with Deus Ex: Human Circles only to realise I both forgot what the buttons were and where, exactly, I was. Fortunately the menu provided the answer for the former, of which it all came rushing back, whilst the latter was answered with me loading up in front of the first boss fight.

    Gosh, folks weren't kidding. Fortunately after a few attempts, a few rockets to the face followed up by some revolver shots, he keeled over in a manner I would not expect someone to do having had 3 rockets fired into their face, but he was augmented so there you go. And for what it's worth, I think it's lame that they're effectively charging for a patch to fix the boss fights, albeit this held me up for at most 10 minutes as forewarning meant I had the aforementioned rocket launcher with me going in.

    I think my problem with DE:HR is myself. I'm not a big fan of stealth games at all and the last one I played, Alpha Protocol, captivated me because the characters and dialogue (+dialogue system) were so interesting and there were quite a few cool things going on. Whilst this game is clearly more functional, I don't think I've ever really got into it, so I'm forcing myself to play it. That which I am playing I am finding enjoyable, but I'd rather not have that feeling at the back of my head pushing me, instead rather it be me wanting to play more. No doubt I'll finish it, but I just think that ultimately this game isn't absolutely for me, but I'm cool with that.

    As an aside, I've been trying to dust off my handheld backlog with the bundle of games I got with my DSi a couple of years back. Having just ordered a 3DS XL in time for Pokťmon X and Y, I wanted to go into that console and games clean, despite the fact the 3DS plays DS games. The one game I had yet to complete that I still cared about (Super Scribblenauts just didn't hold me at all) was The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass. Rather fitting I completed it around the time Wind Waker HD was released on the Wii U. Anyhow, it's a fun game. Not without flaws and a control system that requires getting used to, but on the whole it did a few interesting things and kept going at a decent chop.
    Powered by Steam. And biscuits. I'm also a twit and dabble in creative writing.

  4. #17784
    Activated Node realitysconcierge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Does that work well or it's just another "oh OK now I can play it on the couch too" ?
    It actually does much to my surprise! They're really good about indicators. They actually revamped how you interact with the interface to really make it work.

  5. #17785
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Yeah, I don't really see peoples problem with it? It was quite fun! And visually, it was a treat throughout. A very atmospheric city, especially in winter.

    I just came out of prison and its spring,so its a nice change after 4 hours of winter which was also very nice. Visually it looks miles better then GTA4 and it not even smaller game,this is how you do game. Learn rockstar,learn.

  6. #17786
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    A couple of levels into Knock knock and still not exactly sure how the mechanics work. I get that I sometimes have to hide from the "evil eye" / observer but I don't understand what determines if it finds me or not. Do the spoken lines contain any clues? Apparently you are sometimes supposed to stay out in the open, but then you risk being spooked by a visitor.

    The confusing gameplay is bit frustrating but the overall atmosphere is enjoyably scary.

  7. #17787
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lukasz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gwathdring View Post
    I was disappointed with Portal 2 as well, but I don't understand your reason for being disappointed. Portal 1 was also quite linear and short of exploiting bugs in the physics engine there really isn't much you can do that's "creative" no matter how creative it feels. I would argue, instead, that the puzzle design in Portal 2 (co-op excepting) is simply easier. It feels more linear because you aren't learning new mechanics and the game is afraid of frustrating players--rightly so, it's a difficult thing to balance. Portal 1 was teaching players to think with an entirely new set of mechanics while Portal 2 tried to squeeze that part into a shorter time scale so as not to be overly boring for returning players which meant they also had to make later puzzles easier than would be ideal since new players got less time to grok the systems than they did in portal 1 which has the side effect of making returning players feel a little more bored and ... well ... it's a mess.

    It was a tough design challenge, and they decided to paper over their good-faith attempt with writing and voice acting and general charm. Which, for a lot of people, worked perfectly. For me? The lackluster something-for-everyone puzzle design left me feeling left out whereas in Portal 1 the entire game was an impeccably designed tutorial for the last few puzzles--which was great becauseI was at the appropriate skill level for the pacing the whole portals thing being new to me.

    Co-op saw some real puzzles. Real clever stuff that felt more like Portal 1 in the design space of Portal 2--new mechanics and all--and with a second player to account for. It taught you at a good pace, and introduced genuinely befuddling challenges that made you feel like a creative wizard for solving them even though you were figuring it out pretty much exactly how it was planned.

    Very few puzzles actually allow for "creative" solution. This is the nature of a puzzle. It has a small number of valid solutions. It's difficult to create an environment in which puzzles are practically solvable, challenging, and allow for "creative" solutions. Space Chem is a nice example of such an environment.

    But in general, that's not how puzzles work. Creative people might be better at solving them, but the solutions are carefully designed. Intended. It makes for a poor puzzle if it's too open ended! Exceptions such as Space Chem aside. Some puzzles have multiple solutions of varying "difficulty" but good designers tend to avoid that trap--one player's difficulty is not another's and your "harder" "more creative" puzzle solution might just be giving half your player base an easier shortcut to the "proper" solution. Sometimes it's better to just let that same half find some of your puzzles easy in their entirety rather than cripple all of your puzzles.
    I've only played SP mode as I don't touch CoOps or any forms of MP.
    So I base my opinion only on SP

    Portal 1 was linear but it also gave you room to experiment. Thats why you had those challenges... use the least amount of portals or beat it as quickly as possible. You could do that without using glitches.
    This is impossible with Portal 2. Every puzzle must be completed in exact way with exact number of portals and with exact timing. No figuring out where to put portals, which portal to put... in Portal 2 the question was only when. When to put a portal in certain place. because you always knew where to put portal (seeing as every other place was covered with nonportal surface) and you always knew which portal to put. leaving you with only figuring out the order.
    First game was famous for its: "now you are thinking with portals". I never had that feeling in this game... instead i tried to think like game developers as everytime I tried to use the gun I found out that it does simply not work. so instead of finding out a way with portals I was finding out a way game designer created.
    This kind of thing really broke immersion.

    Game is decent. nothing more. Great writing, fun characters. intolerable level and gameplay designs.

  8. #17788
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Got VTM: BL installed and patched, with the intent of playing it as my Halloween game, but I think it might be a bit involved for the time being. So we're looking at a roster of Lone Survivor, Walking Dead and another play through of Costume Quest I think.

  9. #17789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Serenegoose View Post
    Yeah, I don't really see peoples problem with it? It was quite fun! And visually, it was a treat throughout. A very atmospheric city, especially in winter.
    Definitely the most atmospheric open-world game out there (IMO). My only concern with Mafia 2 was all the mundane and boring tasks they would force you to do (cleaning toilets, hauling boxes, etc).

  10. #17790
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    A couple of levels into Knock knock and still not exactly sure how the mechanics work. I get that I sometimes have to hide from the "evil eye" / observer but I don't understand what determines if it finds me or not. Do the spoken lines contain any clues? Apparently you are sometimes supposed to stay out in the open, but then you risk being spooked by a visitor.

    The confusing gameplay is bit frustrating but the overall atmosphere is enjoyably scary.
    To understand the mechanics, you need to pay attention to what the lodger says, and follow his advice.

    Also, don't forget to zoom out regularly to keep an eye on things.

  11. #17791
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Cheers for the tips LTK, I already expected that figuring out the mechanics was a part of the game experience. Hence, I try to avoid as many spoilers as possible but the game does get frustrating in places if you don't know why what you did wrong.

  12. #17792
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gwathdring's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    I've only played SP mode as I don't touch CoOps or any forms of MP.
    So I base my opinion only on SP

    Portal 1 was linear but it also gave you room to experiment. Thats why you had those challenges... use the least amount of portals or beat it as quickly as possible. You could do that without using glitches.
    This is impossible with Portal 2. Every puzzle must be completed in exact way with exact number of portals and with exact timing. No figuring out where to put portals, which portal to put... in Portal 2 the question was only when. When to put a portal in certain place. because you always knew where to put portal (seeing as every other place was covered with nonportal surface) and you always knew which portal to put. leaving you with only figuring out the order.
    First game was famous for its: "now you are thinking with portals". I never had that feeling in this game... instead i tried to think like game developers as everytime I tried to use the gun I found out that it does simply not work. so instead of finding out a way with portals I was finding out a way game designer created.
    This kind of thing really broke immersion.

    Game is decent. nothing more. Great writing, fun characters. intolerable level and gameplay designs.
    Ah. Ok. I got you. Your use of the phrase creative threw me off, because even in the challenges, the solutions are (largely) "expected." I'm sure there are tips and tricks they didn't expect--no designer is perfect. But the goal was definitely that you'd have to do something different for the challenges than you did in the main game, which means both parts were carefully designed and they expected very particular solutions in the main game. As such I'm still a little confused by the way you're wording it--thinking like a developer and such. That's very much a part of Portal 1, it's just hidden very well so that you think you're thinking like Chell or just plain thinking when you're thinking what the game designer wants you to think. There's plenty of linearity and leading and teaching, it was just (I concur) done far, far, far better in the first game so that it felt much looser and you felt more like you were solving a puzzle than riding a roller coaster.
    Last edited by gwathdring; 15-10-2013 at 06:39 PM.
    I think of [the Internet] as a grisly raw steak laid out on a porcelain benchtop in the sun, covered in chocolate hazelnut sauce. In the background plays Stardustís Music Sounds Better With You. Thereís lots of fog. --tomeoftom

    You ruined his point by putting it in context thatís cheating -bull0

  13. #17793
    I had a Craving for a new Roguelike so i started playing

    Cataclysm Dark Days ahead (SdL Version with the 2nd Tileset)

    And its all thats good and bad with roguelikes,means highly complex Gameplay and Possibilities and horrible UI and Graphics.
    I really have a hard Time prying myself away from it.Always one more Suburb to Raid.
    It has all kinds of Stuff like :
    Custom build Vehicles from scavenged/selfmade Parts,
    Bionics,
    Survival Elements,
    simulated Noise,Weather,Day/Night.
    Crafting
    etc.

    Itīs somewhat similar to DF/SS 13 in Complexity and Neo Scavenger/Walking Dead (Zombieapocalypse) in Setting,and for people who like noncommercial Roguelikes i recommend a Look.
    Last edited by Arona Daal; 15-10-2013 at 07:23 PM.
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  14. #17794
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    I finally forged ahead and beat Trias in Planescape: Torment. I got a bit tired of running around Carceri/Curst so I left it for a while and moved on to other stuff. Yesterday I just ran ahead, ignoring attackers and found Trias, and then his blade storm spell killed half my party before I managed to defeat him. I only had two more charges of my Raise Dead ability left, and Fall-From-Grace hadn't learned hers yet, so I had the choice of leaving Vhailor's corpse in Curst and moving on, or trying again. The next couple of times I died, and after that I defeated Trias but Vhailor insisted on putting his axe through Trias's face, and that wasn't what I wanted. So I tried again, died another three times, and eventually found that it was easiest to let Vhailor tank Trias while I and the rest of the party stayed behind, throwing spells at him, until Vhailor died and I sicced the rest of my party members at him, who were all Mirror Imaged. Trias defeated, told him to seek forgiveness, Vhailor revived and we're back in Sigil.

  15. #17795
    Network Hub Pertusaria's Avatar
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    I'm thinking of getting Democracy 3, as it's a niche game that looks to be made for my niche, more or less. Has anyone played any of its predecessors, and is a government / politics nerd likely to like it, or does it fail to live up to its promise in some way? The price is a bit high, but if it really is what it says on the tin I feel like I should support it. On the other hand, I have almost no play time these days, so on a practical level it can wait.

    I know there's a demo for Democracy 2, and if I have time this weekend I'll take a look at it, but I've also heard that the demo is good for testing whether the game runs on your hardware but doesn't show much of the game. Please correct me if this is wrong!
    "Harry uses the One Ring to defeat Magneto and save the Rebellion!"
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  16. #17796
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Casimir Effect's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LTK View Post
    I finally forged ahead and beat Trias in Planescape: Torment. I got a bit tired of running around Carceri/Curst so I left it for a while and moved on to other stuff. Yesterday I just ran ahead, ignoring attackers and found Trias, and then his blade storm spell killed half my party before I managed to defeat him. I only had two more charges of my Raise Dead ability left, and Fall-From-Grace hadn't learned hers yet, so I had the choice of leaving Vhailor's corpse in Curst and moving on, or trying again. The next couple of times I died, and after that I defeated Trias but Vhailor insisted on putting his axe through Trias's face, and that wasn't what I wanted. So I tried again, died another three times, and eventually found that it was easiest to let Vhailor tank Trias while I and the rest of the party stayed behind, throwing spells at him, until Vhailor died and I sicced the rest of my party members at him, who were all Mirror Imaged. Trias defeated, told him to seek forgiveness, Vhailor revived and we're back in Sigil.
    Find any of the fun stuff in Curst/Curst Gone/Curst Carceri? Like the Infinite Wish scroll or the Big Evil Demon From The Box, if you did the demon-in-a-box quest a certain way?
    Strange you had a problem with Trias himself as I've never found that fight too hard. First time I ever played the game I found it hard to get to him due to respawning demons, but Trias himself looked was just a fancy lightshow through which my fighter TNO and Morte carved a path.

  17. #17797
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    Find any of the fun stuff in Curst/Curst Gone/Curst Carceri? Like the Infinite Wish scroll or the Big Evil Demon From The Box, if you did the demon-in-a-box quest a certain way?
    Strange you had a problem with Trias himself as I've never found that fight too hard. First time I ever played the game I found it hard to get to him due to respawning demons, but Trias himself looked was just a fancy lightshow through which my fighter TNO and Morte carved a path.
    Trias gets stronger if you don't do all the "good deeds" in Curst. I'm guessing that if he "just ran ahead", he probably skipped all those mini-events and fought Trias at his hardest.

  18. #17798
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    The good deeds are just dialogue choices triggered automatically, so I couldn't actually avoid doing them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Casimir Effect View Post
    Find any of the fun stuff in Curst/Curst Gone/Curst Carceri? Like the Infinite Wish scroll or the Big Evil Demon From The Box, if you did the demon-in-a-box quest a certain way?
    Strange you had a problem with Trias himself as I've never found that fight too hard. First time I ever played the game I found it hard to get to him due to respawning demons, but Trias himself looked was just a fancy lightshow through which my fighter TNO and Morte carved a path.
    I only had to dispatch three weaksauce demon bulls to get to him. Those were all the demons that ever appeared on that floor. It wasn't particularly hard to fight him as long as I prepared - spells, charms beforehand and such - but that blade storm spell packs a real punch. It took out Annah, Dak'kon and Fall-From-Grace in one hit the first time around.

    I had already killed the box demon, and I didn't find the scroll. Guess that was in the one cabinet I couldn't pick the lock of.

  19. #17799
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  20. #17800
    Dark Souls. Killed Ornstein and Smough without too much difficulty. Like with Capra, I'm slightly disappointed. The Bell Gargoyles gave me a harder time. Anyway, I'm not sure on where I should go now. Is there anything I should keep in mind going forward?

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