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  1. #19301
    Lesser Hivemind Node Oshada's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrestledwithgod View Post
    I'm tempted to buy this every time it goes on sale but the thought of a detective with a triple digit kill count in an otherwise grounded noir story always turns me off. Just how much of the game is shooting?
    I've completed the whole thing, you kill less than 30 bad guys.

  2. #19302
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DevinSmoth View Post
    Well... I like that kind of story... and Joker is one of my favorite villains, even though I don't particularly like the Batman idea in general. That said, the intro was really bad... but I love Joker's voice.
    The Joker is certainly one of the best characters in there, but the version found in AA doesn't really cut it for me coming from Heath Ledger's. In hindsight, when I started AA, I had an explicit expectation of not liking it, and an implicit one set by my watching the films (which is basically the only recent exposure I had to the franchise).

    Instead, I found there's a lot to like (wouldn't have played it for so long otherwise), but I found myself being able to pay less and less attention to what was being going on, not unlike certain RPGs where you simply click-click-click to advance the story so you can check the next thing off the list (surely another element that made me liken my Witcher experience to AA)

    Seeing how the story seemed to get praise, and the collectibles criticized as an extraneous element that affected negatively plot pacing, I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that it would have played out better for me if that part of the game was only unlocked for subsequent playthroughs; I did feel like a tourist in some sort of magical world though, to the point that often the story elements, like being shut off from a certain section of a level or having to deal with enemies, interfered with my enjoyment.

    It is certainly an 'interesting' game, as you said.

    Tried out War of the Human Tanks yesterday; seemingly when you cross a VN with a strategy game what you get is a game with a serious case of verbal dhiarrea. While not a regular player of VNs, I've played and enjoyed more than a few; the intro here, however, is terribly silly and overlong, focusing on story elements that didn't seem so pressing to deserve that much attention so early in the game; as a result, when it finally tried to explain gameplay to me, I was tired of the game's blabbering and obnoxious music, confused about what I was actually supposed to do, and quickly gave up.

    So I fired up Reus instead (thanks icupnimpn2!); it's a bit early, but my first impression is that of a game that would be harsh to call half-baked, yet could have done with some more polish. Still, I had no trouble figuring out what was expected of me, so I'm shelving the Tanks with no regrets.
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  3. #19303
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    The Joker is certainly one of the best characters in there, but the version found in AA doesn't really cut it for me coming from Heath Ledger's. In hindsight, when I started AA, I had an explicit expectation of not liking it, and an implicit one set by my watching the films (which is basically the only recent exposure I had to the franchise).
    You do realize that Mark Hamill has voiced the Joker numerous times and way before Heath Ledger was ever considered for the movie role? While Ledger was certainly good in the movie, I would hardly consider his performance the definitive one.

  4. #19304
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winged Nazgul View Post
    You do realize that Mark Hamill has voiced the Joker numerous times and way before Heath Ledger was ever considered for the movie role? While Ledger was certainly good in the movie, I would hardly consider his performance the definitive one.
    It depends on what you "grew up with". Those of us who experienced the glory of The Animated Series have a soft spot for the Hamil "batshit scary clown who really makes me feel bad whenever I laugh with him" angle, whereas those who primarly watched the Nolanverse will prefer the "Scary and uberdark psychopath"
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  5. #19305
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winged Nazgul View Post
    You do realize that Mark Hamill has voiced the Joker numerous times and way before Heath Ledger was ever considered for the movie role? While Ledger was certainly good in the movie, I would hardly consider his performance the definitive one.
    As mentioned, my recent exposure to the franchise is the Nolan treatment and before that Burton's films. Before AA I had no idea they made an animated series, I've learned about it while researching the game.

    I'm not saying that Hamill didn't do a good acting job, but he's not writing the character and the way it is portrayed in the game is just less interesting to me; for all I know, it might be more faithful to the batman canon, but not being a batman fan, my preference goes to an unfaithful adaptation that does something different with the material.

    Of course, those who are more into the franchise will have a very different outlook from mine, and that's OK with me.
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  6. #19306
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    It depends on what you "grew up with".
    What if you grew up with both? There are two polarities to Joker: scary (Nolan movies, Killing Joke) and wacky (Animated Series, golden age comics), and he's bounced back and forth between the two, or existed in both simultaneously (Burton movie, Mask of the Phantasm, Arkham games), depending on who's writing him.

    Nolan and Ledger's take is definitely my favourite so far, but Hamill's Joker is still the one all others are compared to, in my mind. It's the one that distills the history of what's basically now an archetype into one superbly balanced character.

    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    but not being a batman fan, my preference goes to an unfaithful adaptation that does something different with the material.
    Oh, Nolan/Ledger Joker's quite faithful, if you can overlook losing the "fell into a vat of chemicals" origin story, which it's probably time to lose anyway. They just went full-on dark, and probably did the best job yet (though Alan Moore's Joker still comes pretty close).
    Last edited by GunnerMcCaffrey; 16-01-2014 at 08:19 PM.

  7. #19307
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    What if you grew up with both? There are two polarities to Joker: scary (Nolan movies, Killing Joke) and wacky (Animated Series, golden age comics), and he's bounced back and forth between the two, or existed in both simultaneously (Burton movie, Mask of the Phantasm, Arkham games), depending on who's writing him.
    Actually, go back and rewatch The Animated Series. As a little kid it is fun to laugh at The Joker's antics, but once you are older it is clear just how scary and creepy he was. And basically any scene with Harley Quinn is going to hurt. And Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker established that he can do creepy and pure fucking evil better than Ledger, at least in my eyes.


    Oh, Nolan/Ledger Joker's quite faithful. They just went full-on dark, and probably did the best job yet (though Alan Moore's Joker still comes pretty close if you ask me).
    If you check the comics, it is actually interesting. Before TAS, Joker was largely dominated by the 60's batman "fun and goofy" approach with a bit of the Burton gangster added in. Sure you had the occasional "holy fucking shit..." story (Killing Joke and Death in the Family come to mind), but the really dark and evil shit was reserved for other villains.

    The success of TAS is what really shifted basically every Batman villain into being batshit scary and cerebral (admittedly, it was also the 90s, so... yeah) and Joker, as his arch enemy (if you ignore Ras and Bane and Two-Face with some writers...), gets cranked up to eleven to the point that Ledger-Joker is actually "lighter and softer"...

    ...
    Speaking of TAS, I now suddenly want to go re-watch every appearance of Mr Freeze.
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  8. #19308
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    Obviously the Adam West series is the definitive Batman.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  9. #19309
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Obviously the Adam West series is the definitive Batman.
    Coming soon to a DVD near you:

    http://www.dccomics.com/blog/2014/01...-video-release

    /cantwait

  10. #19310
    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Actually, go back and rewatch The Animated Series. As a little kid it is fun to laugh at The Joker's antics, but once you are older it is clear just how scary and creepy he was.
    You could be right- it's been a long time. But then compare that to Phantasm, where he's more... murder-y. They upped the sinister quotient just enough that you can tell the TV serial was aimed mostly at kids, while the movie was aimed at teenagers and young adults who'd been kids when the show started.

    And it was seamless. Just more proof of the One True Joker.

    Speaking of TAS, I now suddenly want to go re-watch every appearance of Mr Freeze.
    Oh wow, yes. I can still hear the voice.

  11. #19311
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    You could be right- it's been a long time. But then compare that to Phantasm, where he's more... murder-y. They upped the sinister quotient just enough that you can tell the TV serial was aimed mostly at kids, while the movie was aimed at teenagers and young adults who'd been kids when the show started.

    And it was seamless. Just more proof of the One True Joker.
    It was mostly a matter of focus. Phantasm played up his gangster roots and just didn't bother hiding it whereas the normal series made it a point to stick with more "comical" deaths (because NOTHING is funnier than being exposed to a nerve toxin and asphyxiating while feeling your face rip itself apart...) and to add more slapstick to his murder.

    A good example would actually be Ledger's performance, funny enough. In the scene where he blows up the hospital, he has that moment where he pauses, smacks the detonator a few more times, blows it up, and then giddily runs away. That perfectly captures the Hamil-Joker's ability to make you smile/laugh before realizing "... he just killed that guy" (although, the hospital was evacuated so lame).



    Oh wow, yes. I can still hear the voice.
    I still get choked up by one of his (if not THE) final lines in the entire series/DCAU

    In the far future, he has been driven back to being a villain. Batman (Terry McGiness) is the only person who truly believed he could change. As Freeze is about to be crushed by a collapsing magic factory thing, Batman calls out to him to get out of there because he could die. Ansara's heartbreaking reply of "Believe me, you're the only one who cares" just works on every possible level
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  12. #19312
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Surely there's already a thread here somewhere debating the nuances of various voice-acted performances?

    Personally, I'm kinda between games right now but will likely jump into The Banner Saga this weekend when I have time.
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  13. #19313
    Lesser Hivemind Node Kodeen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnerMcCaffrey View Post
    Oh, Nolan/Ledger Joker's quite faithful, if you can overlook losing the "fell into a vat of chemicals" origin story, which it's probably time to lose anyway.
    I was under the impression that comic book Joker didn't have an official origin story, that he would tell different stories at different times, possibly because he thought it was funny. In that sense Ledger-Joker is kind of on the mark, since he had different origin stories for his scars.

  14. #19314
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumarole View Post
    Surely there's already a thread here somewhere debating the nuances of various voice-acted performances?

    Personally, I'm kinda between games right now but will likely jump into The Banner Saga this weekend when I have time.
    Because a thread where nobody discusses anything and just spams information is SO much better


    Quote Originally Posted by Kodeen View Post
    I was under the impression that comic book Joker didn't have an official origin story, that he would tell different stories at different times, possibly because he thought it was funny. In that sense Ledger-Joker is kind of on the mark, since he had different origin stories for his scars.
    The general rule of thumb is that The Joker was a man who dressed up as The Red Hood (a notorious legacy identity used by a wide range of criminals and one particular vigilante). He fell into a chemical vat (usually Batman's fault, but sometimes he is thrown in to silence him or he just trips) and was mutated/burned. What varies is who he was before that and why he was in a Red Hood costume

    Then there are the really wonky theories such as he is actually a manifestation of a god of chaos, he was born that way, etc. Although, if memory serves, Morrison took the approach that whatever Joker WAS he has become a borderline divine being just by sheer force of insanity and evil.
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  15. #19315
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Because a thread where nobody discusses anything and just spams information is SO much better.
    Desiring the discussion to be about games in a thread about games is hardly too much to ask. There are subforums and threads aplenty for in-depth discussion of movies and cartoons.
    Last edited by Fumarole; 16-01-2014 at 10:44 PM. Reason: perhaps a bit too snippy
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  16. #19316
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumarole View Post
    Passive-aggressive much? Desiring the discussion to be about games in a thread about games is hardly too much to ask. There are subforums and threads aplenty for in-depth discussion of movies and cartoons.
    It is a discussion that resulted from discussing games.

    And I just dislike the mentality of "OFF TOPIC SO IT IS STUPID AND SHOULD DIE!!!". Maybe I am just weird, but when my friends and I discuss things, we go where the conversation takes us. So we might start by discussing the impact of a journal paper and end up ranting about something completely different. Nobody says "whoa, whoa, whoa. We are off topic guys".
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  17. #19317
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    Bust with Alice Madness Returns, was on my radar for far too long.
    Although when I found out it was on the Unreal Engine I had to mess around with it first.

    Ended up rescaling the difficulty and adding controllable slow motion to the dodge...

    But I'm now finally actually playing it.

  18. #19318
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    It depends on what you "grew up with". Those of us who experienced the glory of The Animated Series have a soft spot for the Hamil "batshit scary clown who really makes me feel bad whenever I laugh with him" angle, whereas those who primarly watched the Nolanverse will prefer the "Scary and uberdark psychopath"
    Everyone seems to have their definitive Joker. Heath Ledger’s extra strength crazy (he amusingly sounds like he took a really big bite of sandwich and can’t quite get it down), Cesar Romero’s unshaven prankster (there’s a whisper of a moustache there), Jack Nicholson’s measured mix of the jester and the killer, and Mark Hamill’s…



    Yeah I’ve gotta give it to him.

  19. #19319
    Lesser Hivemind Node DevinSmoth's Avatar
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    Another quick note about the Batman games... I felt like they tried to be many different things at the same time. There was part RPG there with the level ups/new tech upgrades. There was the challenge missions if you wanted to do single levels that had challenges built in. There was a hand to hand combat simulator that didn't do much more than mash a button and point your stick in the direction of the guy you were hitting. There was the collectible thing, for the explorers. And there was the story part where it could have been just better if you'd read it... or they made it a movie. Then... the boss fights, particularly the last one... what?

    Anyway... they seemed scattered so it felt like they ended up being pulled in so many directions that they couldn't feel that they could excel in any certain way.

  20. #19320
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    So that's Hexcells completed. Very short game, and I'm not quite as impressed as John was with it. It's definitely a nice mental exercise, it's very elegantly designed, and it even has a semblance of replayability, which is very uncommon for a puzzle game. But the whole package just feels insubstantial. I think the last pure puzzle game I played was Fractal, which is also hex-based. Fractal is a lot less deterministic than Hexcells but it still succeeded in being quite complex and challenging. I suspect the puzzles of Hexcells require a great deal more work to make but as far as the quality of both games goes, I'd put them very close together.

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