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Thread: Carrier Command

  1. #41
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I just started the game up, and the first mission is... first person soldier combat! As in, rifles and men. didnt see that coming, somehow.
    - Tom De Roeck.

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  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ravelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I just started the game up, and the first mission is... first person soldier combat! As in, rifles and men. didnt see that coming, somehow.
    And it controls like controlling a stiff action figure shooting robots with a toy gun, I wanted to see and play battleship and blow stuff up, not play a horrible first person shooter with wonkey voice acting and writing.
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  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Yeah, I almost stopped playing in disgust during the FPS portions. But fortunately I was in the beta and remembered how much fun the rest of the game is.
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  4. #44
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravelle View Post
    And it controls like controlling a stiff action figure shooting robots with a toy gun, I wanted to see and play battleship and blow stuff up, not play a horrible first person shooter with wonkey voice acting and writing.
    True, but I doubt you ever get back to it. However, it *looks* like youll be able to deploy hordes of robot soldiers :D
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus squirrel's Avatar
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    Seriously, my copy doesn't grant any access to multiplayer. Do I miss something here?

    FPS is not very interesting I am afraid, at least not in the campaign.

  6. #46
    Activated Node Daiv's Avatar
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    The Walrus appears to be well named. If it finds its heading roughly 90 degrees from its destination, the AI engages in a three minute 30-point turn like a ton of aquatic mammal flopping about on its belly.

    The Manta appears to be made mainly out of explodium, and its natural state is "spread thinly across the landscape". The AI for the Manta is less prone to getting stuck than the Walrus, but sadly it appears to take longer for the Manta to realize it is under threat and acquire a target than it takes for every gun in line of sight to fire with uncanny accuracy to shred the Manta.

    The enemy infantry robots are utterly irrelevant with their feeble firepower and one-hit-dead hit points, at least until they get always-hit-armour-melting-omni-death-lasers about 5 islands in, whereupon every single one of them is suddenly able to lay down more firepower than all four of your aquatic assault tanks combined.

    Your ability to field vehicles is limited by your stocks on your carrier. A tremendously slow submarine will helpfully deliver replacements to you... eventually. It takes time for your production islands to fulfill your production orders. And then it takes time for your supply submarine to transport the goods to your carrier - and you can't fit much on the submarine. It's only got a limited capacity. No, it'll take three, maybe four trips to get all 8 vehicles from the stockpile to the carrier. Even more trips if you want to have some weapons in case you want your armoured assault units to actually assault anything. More still if you want to bring some utility modules to do things like the mandatory hacking module without which fighting your way to the command center is pointless. Oh, and you need fuel for your carrier too. Put that on the submarine. What about armour so your units don't crumple every time the wind blows? Build some of them too and put them on the submarine. There's only one submarine, so each trip is a round trip. And once you're fully stocked, you've equipped your units, and deployed them... Try not to lose them again, because your raw material stockpile is now depleted and it'll take even longer to replace the stuff you just got. It takes time for your mining islands to rip the raw materials out of the ground so you'll be waiting a while for the next set of stuff to come out of the factory.

    When not under direct control, your units appear to have the discipline and killer instinct of a bag of pears. They bumble around firing wildly in the general direction of the enemy, blocking your shots with their hulls, maximizing ammunition and fuel expenditure, aiming for the minimum possible damage inflicted. Every enemy target will be attacked, in no particular order, meaning that your AI escort will happily spend his time shooting at concrete walls to eventually burrow through to destroy an AA gun which can't actually hit your tanks... while both of you are taking heavy fire from tanks sitting in plain view in front of you. Simple "follow me" orders result in friendly units carefully aligning themselves with rocks, trees and buildings, and then bouncing gently off them until they are eventually facing roughly the same direction as me. I watched a Walrus fling itself down a cliff to get to me, then pause, think for a second, climb back up the hill, and then fling itself down the same section of cliff for a second time. Simply trying to get three tanks to follow the one you're driving results in Walruses taking off on side excursions, driving across the map to engage an enemy installation well outside your objective, blundering through ambushes without bothering to return fire, attempting to engage infantry with quad AA guns that can't actually depress low enough to hit anything below tree level, shooting grenades at threatening looking corners of sinister (but innocent) buildings, and driving right up to trees, apparently to inspect them closely.

    My fearsome tank takes damage getting on to shallow ramps. Barrels explode when I drive close to them. There is mud, apparently for the express purpose of being annoying because the designers of your all-terrain amphibious assault tanks apparently never encountered mud or don't consider it to be part of "all terrain", so you slip and slide and make glacial progress. Sadly your Walrus AI doesn't recognize mud, so it helpfully tries to take short cuts which leave it spinning its wheels happily while it glides across the surface... backwards.

    One of the developers came up with a really cool-looking shader that makes something look like it's a badly-tuned hologram. It looks fantastic! It wouldn't look out of place in a game with lots of holograms. Sadly, it appears that the game has only one hologram (the command chair screen), and that one needs to be crisp and clear, so the badly-tuned hologram shader appears to have been used on things that are underwater, which is an odd looking effect.

    The elephant in the room is Hostile Waters. Hostile Waters did this ELEVEN YEARS AGO and brought personality by the bucketload. I miss my units talking in unique voices. I miss the pilots giving each other advice, complimenting one another on a good kill or just bickering when they don't like each other. I miss the satisfied snarl of Ransom taking down another target, the whooping of Borden as she causes explosions, and the grumbling of Patton as he realizes it's his turn in the resource collector. Carrier Command is a less structured game than Hostile Waters - not so much of a story-heavy campaign, that's for sure. But everything Hostile Waters did, it did it better.

    Walrus 6 has engaged the enemy. Walrus 7 has engaged the enemy. Walrus 8 has engaged the enemy. Walrus 9 has engaged the enemy.

    Walrus 6 has been destroyed. Walrus 7 has been destroyed. Walrus 8 has been destroyed. Walrus 9 has been destroyed.
    Last edited by Daiv; 29-09-2012 at 08:07 AM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
    Seriously, my copy doesn't grant any access to multiplayer. Do I miss something here?

    FPS is not very interesting I am afraid, at least not in the campaign.
    There is no multiplayer. Just Campaign and Skirmish

  8. #48
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    And yeah, this is no Hostile Waters.

    About the only I've had in this game is driving around in a lightning storm.

    Seriously, It's pretty shit.

    I'll probably spend a few more hours on it but all that is likely to do is get the smell of shit stuck under my finger nails.

    It also took me thirty minutes to run inside that lift and have the woman npc follow me on that first bit of game. fuck.

  9. #49
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    So, it's a standard BIS game?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by caljohnston View Post
    So, it's a standard BIS game?
    It doesn't seem worth persevering with like their military sims.

    The game I want to play is in there, just lavished with shite AI, terrible terrible interfaces and that perplexing eastern european-ness which can in turn make games special or shite by equal measures. Unfortunately with this it seems to be the later

  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caljohnston View Post
    So, it's a standard BIS game?
    BIS have consistently failed to improve their vehicle AI. The AI handles the Manta capably, but they're useless with the Walrus. The pathfinding is abysmal, and it displays the same behaviour as the ARMA driving AI.

    To anyone thinking "Oh, it'll get patched" - no, it won't. The driving AI right from Operation Flashpoint up until today has never been at an acceptable standard. BIS have never made it work right. The AI picks ridiculous paths, has to slow down for pretty much every obstacle even if there's no chance of it colliding with it, and even seems to come to almost a complete stop just to change direction slightly. It's never been patched properly.

    Also we had the exact same behaviour all through the beta, and it's never been fixed. I've come to the conclusion that BIS just can't make a decent vehicle AI. In the ARMA series where it's slower paced, has more open areas, and thus relies less on efficient vehicle pathing, it's less of a game breaker and more of an annoyance. In Carrier Command, where you must rely on the AI to drive your assets, it's game breaking.

    Which is a shame because there's a good game hiding under here - when it all works as intended it's pretty fantastic. But as Patrick and Daiv have said, it rarely works, and the core problem is with the AI, and BIS have never fixed vehicle AI issues. Ever.

    The only thing I can say is that the engine ran flawlessly on my rig, unlike the ARMA games which run at 10FPS on release and only start to become playable well into their lifespan. BIS are fairly adept at fixing rendering engine issues, but rarely make AI any better, so I don't have high hopes.

  12. #52
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    its purrty and you get to drive a carrier WHAT MORE CAN YOU WANT.


    But yes, I was hoping theyd have fixed the abysmal pathfinding by now. If that works, and maybe some damage balancing, it would be a treat. Still dont mind having "funded" this.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Heliocentric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daiv View Post
    But everything Hostile Waters did, it did it better. [I]
    Such a disappointment. I'd hoped only for a match of hostile waters with multiplayer.

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  14. #54
    Network Hub Colonel J's Avatar
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    Sheeeiiiiiit. This one has been high on my wish list this year but it's sounding like a disappointment.

    Will be interested to read the RPS WIT, I'm guessing Jim will get this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    its purrty and you get to drive a carrier WHAT MORE CAN YOU WANT..
    This. Please.


  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ravelle's Avatar
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    A shame really, the trailer was so promising and full of action.
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  16. #56
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    If they fixed up the pathfinding issue the game would be passable with moments of brilliance. When it all works it's fairly impressive and fun.

    But the pathfinding is such a core aspect of the game that any failure there cripples the game and destroys any possible fun. And given that BIS have never had vehicle pathfinding working right, I don't see any hope of improvement. It didn't change during the beta, it won't change a year from now (if ARMA is anything to go by).

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    I played last night. First twenty minutes are horrible- one of the worst games ever. But I knew it was a different game if I could just get to a carrier (there is also "strategy game" mode which instantly starts in a carrier).
    So eventually I had a carrier and a couple of amphibious vehicles. The game got a bit better because it wasn't a horrible, consolized (is this even a port? It feels like an OBVIOUS port) shooter with zero character. But it was still horrible, unfun, and ugly.

    No wait, the graphics are actually great, and run well. But this is an ugly game. Seriously, it is insulting.

  18. #58
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    so everyone agrees to "if the pathfinding were good, the game were good"?

    I quite like the OMG SNIPED moments when you find routes into the base that obviously are lacking defences, especially with aircraft.

    Yes, the ground vehicles need a serious overhaul pertaining to driving AI/pathfinding. That cant be too hard, right? right?!?!!111
    - Tom De Roeck.

    monochrom & verse publications

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Yeah the game is not nearly as bad as the beginning of the campaign wants you to think. But the islands feel generic and nothing seems to work the way it's intended. Imagine how much better it would be with a nice free camera and perhaps an option for controls somewhat similar to RTS? I don't know.... the base idea for this game is awesome, but nothing feels well done.
    Makes me miss that Battlezone remake.

  20. #60
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bobtree's Avatar
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    I was really looking forward to this, but I'm going to wait for major patching or a big price drop. I read too much of the beta forum feedback to want to risk it right now. The official forums are very optimistic and forgiving despite all the issues, but they also maybe paid half price for the play-and-contribute beta access.

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