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  1. #21
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus coldvvvave's Avatar
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    Hipsters? Doubt they even play PC games.

  2. #22
    Lesser Hivemind Node Scumbag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coldvvvave View Post
    Hipsters? Doubt they even play PC games.
    Hi, indie scene just phoned! Dunno if I'm alone in getting bored of the term hipster being thrown around like "Emo" or "Poser" used to though.

    Agree with people thinking its silly comparing modern RPGs to Wasteland. Its like comparing a fully modded Stalker to a new Modern Warfare game; both can be considered FPS, but hell if they have much in common past the viewpoint and guns.

  3. #23
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scumbag View Post
    Hi, indie scene just phoned! Dunno if I'm alone in getting bored of the term hipster being thrown around like "Emo" or "Poser" used to though.
    I was being sarcastic with my hipster comment, but to be fair some of that "attitude" (I guess?) leaks through with the indie sector and the people who hold every indie game up like a shining beacon of hope, to the point where they ignore blatant flaws. It's that mentality of "Everything mainstream is crap, because it was made by a big studio. Also 8-bit graphics are the pinnacle of artistic expression."

    For the record, either extreme is ridiculous (the opposite being "OMG all indy games sux luk at da grafix") but the cool, egotistical superiority of groups like Tale of Tales is more grating than the rantings of a homophobic 15 year old. Also I'm sick of 8 bit platformers.

  4. #24
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    @Vinraith

    I feel the need to point out that these super successful kickstarters are still niche games in terms of numbers.

    Double Fine Adventure
    87,142 contributors at an average of $38
    Wasteland 2
    53,236 contributors at an average of $47

    If those figures are taken as the equivalent of preorders and first week sales then both games would be a failure in the eyes of any AAA publisher. The fact we're talking such big sums of money from such a small pool of players shows just how money the AAA companies waste when they talk about a game failing because it sold <1million units.
    Last edited by Bhazor; 15-04-2012 at 01:20 AM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    If those figures are taken as the equivalent of preorders and first week sales then both games would be a failure in the eyes of any AAA publisher.
    That's a completely false equivalency though for a few reasons, namely: most pre-orders don't ask for the money upfront, most pre-orders happen a couple of months before the game is out, not over a year, and crucially there's a marketing budget for those pre-orders.

    If Activision announced that you could pre-order Call of Duty 2013 that's out in 20 months time by paying for it right now, and only promoted this fact through press releases and interviews, I'm not convinced it would do much better.

    For the Double Fine game at least, I'd be utterly shocked if first week sales didn't at least double that, and utterly unsurprised if it breaks a million fairly easily as long as it's a decent game. Part of that is that Double Fine know how to do decent marketing though, which is why Wasteland 2 is a different proposition.

  6. #26
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus vinraith's Avatar
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    @Bhazor

    As I said with respect to Till when he made a similar argument, I'm content to concede the point. Exactly how pre-pre-pre-orders relate to normal preorders as far as numbers, though, is clearly an open question.

  7. #27
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    @ Vinraith and Deano

    Thats why I said "Preorders and first week sales".
    i.e The core audience of the games who will buy them as soon as they're available at full retail price.

    Compare that to say Modern Warfare or Uncharted where their day one figures are in the millions.
    Compared to that or any AAA title 80,000 in the first week is a trifle. Even "failures" like Bulletstorm moved 300,000 in their first week.

    Speaking of preorders
    http://uk.gamespot.com/news/modern-w...nalyst-6344321
    Last edited by Bhazor; 15-04-2012 at 01:36 PM.

  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    They are adding extra rewards for $30 backers (this includes me !).

    - An extra digital download of the game in any format
    - Access to a four episode Video Development Blog
    - Access to a collection of exclusive Ranger portraits that will double the pool of character portraits you have to choose from at the start of the game (this one is slightly controversial, 75% votes yes 25% votes no)
    - The complete Wasteland 2 Vision Document in digital form


    The lower amount of money they're rising (compared to Double Fine) may be partially to blame for less than ideal reward tiers. I mean, look at this:

    $15 - 32859 Backers
    $30 - 4537 Backers
    $50 - 7117 Backers (!!!)
    $100 - 4697 Backers (!!! again, more than $30)

    It's really odd that 2 reward tiers significantly more expensive than $30 are more popular. This explains why they're adding extra stuff to $30 tier. I'm not offended, I like all the extras and I was already going to pay $30 for soundtrack and concept art. I love music by Mark Morgan.

  9. #29
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    I've just realised how fucking annoying the extra $15 for international shipping is.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    The lower amount of money they're rising (compared to Double Fine) may be partially to blame for less than ideal reward tiers. I mean, look at this
    There's actually some really interesting things come out of looking at the tiers. PC Gamer had an interesting graph of the DF project that showed the $100 tier actually made more money than any of the others by a fair distance. It bought in 1.15 million which would have funded the project itself.

  11. #31
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    @ deano2099

    What DF project? I heard there was a Dwarf Fortress kickstarter but I could never find any details for it. Is that what you mean?

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Fumarole's Avatar
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    Double Fine
    The Medallion of the Imperial Psychopath, a Napoleon: Total War AAR
    For the Emperor!, a Total War: Shogun 2: Fall of the Samurai AAR

  13. #33
    Lesser Hivemind Node TillEulenspiegel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    For the Double Fine game at least, I'd be utterly shocked if first week sales didn't at least double that, and utterly unsurprised if it breaks a million fairly easily as long as it's a decent game.
    I might've mentioned it before, but my current hypothesis is that sales will be about 10x the number of Kickstarter backers. That's assuming game quality/reviews that correlate to Metacritic 80ish. So Wasteland 2 will sell over 550k copies within a few months, Double Fine Adventure 870k (it'll be on every platform you can think of, so that helps).

    That wouldn't be exceptional for a popular indie title, and significantly more than that would be success worth celebrating, so I'm feeling pretty good about the 10x estimate.

  14. #34
    Network Hub thesisko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TillEulenspiegel View Post
    I might've mentioned it before, but my current hypothesis is that sales will be about 10x the number of Kickstarter backers. That's assuming game quality/reviews that correlate to Metacritic 80ish. So Wasteland 2 will sell over 550k copies within a few months, Double Fine Adventure 870k (it'll be on every platform you can think of, so that helps).

    That wouldn't be exceptional for a popular indie title, and significantly more than that would be success worth celebrating, so I'm feeling pretty good about the 10x estimate.
    They could self-finance 3 new games of the same scape with 500K sales.

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    What is the point of this thread?

  16. #36
    Lesser Hivemind Node TailSwallower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    They are adding extra rewards for $30 backers (this includes me !).
    I increased my pledge from $15 to $30 when they announced Avellone would get involved at 2.1 million. So, yay!
    weekendwarrio.rs - We've got more games than time...

  17. #37
    Network Hub thesisko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesisko View Post
    Double Fine did not raise 3M "without a sweat". It was actually "only" at $2.65M with 3 days left while Wasteland 2 is at $2.52M with slightly more than 3 days left. Not exactly a significant difference.
    The final 48 hours seem to be following Double Fine's pattern, with yesterday bringing in twice the average of the preceding days. It's now at $2.74M whereas Double Fine Adventure was at $2.9M with 24 hours left.

    Unless the final day develops in a completely atypical manner, $3M should be easily reached.

  18. #38
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    A more interesting statistic would be how many of the Wasteland backers also backed DFA.

  19. #39
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fumarole View Post
    Double Fine

    Ahh that makes sense. I kept hearing about a DF kickstarter and just always assumed it was for dem dorfs.

  20. #40
    Obscure Node
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    I backed DFA, Wasteland 2, Banner Saga, Starlight Inception and a few unknown Indies (FTL, Blade Symphony, Bacillus, Code Hero).

    I backed DFA because:
    a) I like classic P&C-Adventures by Tim Schafer (I loved MM, DOTT, Full Throttle, ...)
    b) I like modern DF-Games like Psychonauts, Costume Quest, Stacking because of their great writing.
    c) I like the idea of a documentation of the dev-process.

    I expect to get an interesting documentation, an interesting game and a warm fuzzy feeling out of it.

    I backed Wasteland 2 because I like turn-based combat and expect a good story/universe.

    I backed the Banner Saga because I like turn-based combat and expect a good story/universe.

    I'm not a backer of Al Lowe because I did not overly enjoy the old LSL-incarnations and I'm certain I will not like the new incarnation (I'm married; when I want to see boobs I ask my wife to show them; I don't need Al Lowe).

    I'm not a backer of Jane Jensen because I did not play those old Sierra-games; she's an unknown entity for me.

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