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  1. #2041
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Except part of the theme of the episode was that people hadn't moved on, so it was all in-keeping and in her case especially lamp-shaded when she quickly reacts to "Dinner?" with his question. It's no more a cheap shot than Watson listening to Sherlock regarding his moustache despite being furious with him or Mrs. Hudson not dusting his room/letting it.
    I dunno, (almost) everyone had changed to a degree.

    Watson was in a stable relationship and probably won't be moving back in
    "Graham" Lestrade now fully admits he views Sherlock as a friend and instantly hugged the guy. And he seemed to find Sherlock not knowing his name to be more humorous than he did during the Hounds of Baskerville episode
    Hell, even Mycroft is much more accepting of his brother's idiosyncrasies (and vice versa)
    Mrs Hudson is definitely a lot more static though

    I dunno, I viewed it as a "the more things change, the more they stay the same" kind of deal. Which is why I think it would have worked perfectly if it was clear that Molly still pined for Sherlock without going for the "she's delusional" angle.
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  2. #2042
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Yeah I have to say the final gag didnt really work on a deeper level for me definitely felt like a cheap gag at the extent of the character when earlier it gt it right with the still have feelings but moved on a little bit which I think fits the theme better.

  3. #2043
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    Yeah I have to say the final gag didnt really work on a deeper level for me definitely felt like a cheap gag at the extent of the character when earlier it gt it right with the still have feelings but moved on a little bit which I think fits the theme better.
    I mean, if they DID want to make that gag they could have at least toned it down by either making the guy look (but not dress like) Sherlock or make him look completely different but dress similarly. Going for both just felt a bit mean spirited to the chew toy who essentially saved the day and was the mouthpiece for the viewers in the Series 2 finale.

    Don't get me wrong, it was funny, just a bit mean. Especially after they both had a laugh at how she seems to keep falling for sociopaths and the like.
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  4. #2044
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Argh, but the whole point is that she hadn't moved on! Sometimes characters say something, but just because they say it doesn't make it real!
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  5. #2045
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Argh, but the whole point is that she hadn't moved on! Sometimes characters say something, but just because they say it doesn't make it real!
    And there are ways to show that that don't single her out as a "freak" or delusional and is basically what was done with everyone else where they have moved on slightly but are also still the same.

    Hell, I just suggested a slightly different approach that would accomplish the same thing, allow for Watson and Sherlock to share a private joke, and don't come at the expense of the character. And actually fit in with everyone else a lot more.
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  6. #2046
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    What? She's not 'singled out' as a freak or delusional - she's being singled out as obsessed because she is. Obsessed people say and do silly things and I disagree, your approach would've simply implied coincidence, not continued obsession. What on earth is going on there that's at the expense of the character? She fits in fine with the theme.
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  7. #2047
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    What? She's not 'singled out' as a freak or delusional - she's being singled out as obsessed because she is. Obsessed people say and do silly things and I disagree, your approach would've simply implied coincidence, not continued obsession. What on earth is going on there that's at the expense of the character? She fits in fine with the theme.
    Oy.

    Let's try this again:

    Every character (except for Mrs Hudson) is shown to have moved on a bit, but also clearly still ready to accept sherlock and return to something similar to their lives as of two years ago, but with differences.

    Unlike the rest, Molly is basically shown to have not moved on at all and this is illustrated with a somewhat mean joke about her being delusional and not realizing that her new boyfriend looks exactly like Sherlock.

    You are correct: The writers wanted to show she hadn't moved on
    We FEEL that this is a bit mean to the character, especially as her infatuation with Sherlock has been played for laughs in the past. It also seemed a bit mean as the previous series had strongly established that she understood Sherlock would never really feel the same way about her and the previous finale even established that she was one of Sherlock's most important allies and friends. And then this episode suggests that she spent two years pining for Sherlock and is just lying to herself, which kind of feels like a step backwards (all for a gag that, while funny, was a bit mean). And there are ways that gag could have been made that would still make her an equal among the rest of the characters, which would also fit the themes of the episode more.

    Essentially: you are saying "You guys are wrong, they meant X" and we are saying "We feel that X was a bit mean and a similar message could have been conveyed while still allowing the character to develop". To which you are replying "You guys are wrong, they meant X"
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  8. #2048
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    ...well, yes, because I think you guys are looking at it from the wrong way, hence my points. I'd have thought that was quite implicit in the fact that I haven't agreed with you on this. :P I also disagreed with all of your counters to my reasons for people not moving on anyhow, but while I can accept there's wiggle-room there, I really don't think there is here. Of all the characters in the show, she's probably the most down-to-Earth and most human and it's reflected here by doing a very human thing. I would even understand this point if it weren't for the fact that, again, it was lamp-shaded early on. It's not a cheap shot, it's a set-up joke that plays well both on her character and the situation. You talk of character development and moving on, I'd say the character development is from when she first met Sherlock and developed her obsession. This is merely a continuation of the fact.
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  9. #2049
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    Quote Originally Posted by gundato View Post
    Hell, even Mycroft is much more accepting of his brother's idiosyncrasies (and vice versa)
    Mrs Hudson is definitely a lot more static though
    Possible spoiler: Wasn't that Mycroft at the end being all nemisesy? So either everything about the character is an act, or it's another fake out to fool the audience.

  10. #2050
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    I don't think that was him.

    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Of all the characters in the show, she's probably the most down-to-Earth and most human and it's reflected here by doing a very human thing.
    Molly generally acts exactly like a friend of mine, who is also in love Bendydick Cabbagepatch (I suppose all women are).

    I don't think The Molly Situation was mean, but I am a delusional person who never moved on and likes people who look like that old flame. Not sure if that makes me a good or bad judge.

    Also the pornstache was great.

    The worst bit of Sherlock ever was when he saved Irene Adler in Derkaderkastan last season. The new thing in Serbia was also rubbish. I can accept all the contrivances, montages and random slo-mo-because-we-don't-have-enough-material-so-let's-snyder-it... but only as long as they happen on British soil.

  11. #2051
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    The Irene Adler rescue was definitely a bit wonky, but if memory serves Sherlock had already been established as semi-competent in a fight (his random swordfight in his flat that was probably actually related), and that was mostly just to show that he would move heaven and earth to save Irene Adler.

    And it was important to remind people he is physically competent and somewhat of a "badass", if only to make scenes like the motorcycle chase from this episode (mostly) work. It seemed a bit out of the blue that Sherlock is suddenly an incredibly skilled motorcyclist, but the scene itself worked overall and there was enough previous material to make it somewhat plausible.

    And I dunno, my main issue with the Molly thing was that she had been getting character development out the whazoo during season/series 2, they had that nice talk about how she had moved on and was happy (even if she still clearly had a thing for Sherlock and would probably abandon her new man if Sherlock reciprocated), and then she ends up dating Sherlock's doppelganger. All to set up a humorous (and fun) scene of Watson and Sherlock just laughing and deciding to ignore it. I still think the same thing could have been accomplished without making it look like Molly hadn't moved on at all by making him either look like Cumberbatch or dress like Sherlock. But not both.

    But that's the beautiful thing about opinions: We can all have our own, even if everybody but me is wrong :p
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  12. #2052
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    The latest episode of Sherlock is some of the finest ninety minutes of television I have enjoyed watching. An absolute riot.
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  13. #2053
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I'm beginning to think that the Sherlock writers have run out of mysteries for Sherlock to solve since again there was intriguing mystery messily told but with humour and characters to make up for it...these kind of things would be fine for an ongoing series which can focus on character a bit more but we only get three of these things and you kind of wasting it a little bit.

    Also still feel vaguely uncomfortable with Molly's storyline with the boyfriend.

  14. #2054
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Over the christmas holidays I've watched through every episode of Trailer Park Boys.

    Such a great show.
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  15. #2055
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Indeed, I have absolutely no complaints about this week's Sherlock.

    And the middle episode never really advances the overall plot. The first episode wraps up loose ends and sets the status quo for the season, the second episode is a one off that is usually weak (Chinese Assassins and Hounds of Baskerville), and the third episode blows our minds. This is probably the strongest middle episode of all three middle episodes...
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  16. #2056
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    I quite liked it, but for the first thirty minutes I did wonder if there was going to be any sort of mystery at all...

    It was co-written by all three writers, which is a first for the series, as in the past they've taken one each. The Gattis episode was the opener this season too, which means Moffat's episode is still to come next week...

  17. #2057
    Lesser Hivemind Node Winged Nazgul's Avatar
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    Weird that I didn't see the resemblance with Molly's new boyfriend which led to being puzzled at the raised eyebrows and expressions from the other characters. After watching it again, I still don't see the resemblance. lol

  18. #2058
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    So Community is back for season 5, with series creator Dan Harmon once again in charge. There was a double-bill last week to commence the season but I wasn't sure what to expect.

    Turns out it was a decent opener. The season premiere "Repilot" dealt with the aftermatch of the Harmon-less season 4, and reuniting (most of) the cast.

    My favourite moment came at one point when, dressed in the context of the show (how badly going to Greendale College failed each of them) the script also took a really good swipe at how the characters themselves have progressed (or more accurately regressed) over the show's run.

    A little jab at season 4, but also probably an admission by the self-deprecating Harmon about his own work before he was fired. Fingers crossed this tacit confession is a mission statement for fixing the worst affected characterisations on the show.

    Also, Scrubs season 9 references. The show is very aware of the situation it's in.

    After the amount of groundwork episode 1 had to do, episode 2 was even better and mainly settled with establishing the show's new status quo. It felt just as witty and organic as the show used to be.

    In all likelihood Community will get cancelled at the end of this season, but after a lot of trepidation I have hopes for the show again!
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  19. #2059
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Winged Nazgul View Post
    Weird that I didn't see the resemblance with Molly's new boyfriend which led to being puzzled at the raised eyebrows and expressions from the other characters. After watching it again, I still don't see the resemblance. lol
    Was much more pronounced last week when he was dressed exactly like Sherlock and they both just stared at each other. And his hairstyle is Cumberbatch's non-Sherlock hairstyle (Cumberbatch generally looks like a douche when he isn't doing a movie or show :p)

    And I DID think of something to complain about for this week! I don't really see how the murder would be feasible:
    1. The guardsman survived, so he should have been able to give a pretty big hint of "I was never stabbed, I just got undressed, started bleeding, and fell down"
    2. I am not convinced people wouldn't feel themselves getting stabbed
    3. I don't think a belt that you are stabbed through would act as a tourniquet. I would think you would need to put it on AFTER being stabbed for it to work


    But those are general complaints with the murder mystery genre. Still a bit of a letdown for BBC Sherlock to have one, but meh.
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  20. #2060
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Response in turn:

    1. Well, he was stabbed. Not in a manner that's usual, but then as you so rightly point out, that's part of the murder mystery genre. Also consider that he was obviously unconscious after his stabbing, possibly due to blood loss, possibly with some of the former causing him to hit his head on the frame of the area he was having a shower in. We have no idea how long he was in that condition for, merely that he didn't die. Also, Sherlock does specifically mention that he spent no further time on the case, presumably because he too was focused on the wedding.
    2. On the second time you look at him being stabbed, there is a pan to his face to show a reaction to something, but he obviously can't tell what. This is actually understandable given that a sharp enough object can pierce the skin without you noticing much, if at all. I'm sure you've felt a tingle of something, not known what it is only to then discover some time later that there's a cut mark or blood and you left wondering how on earth it happened. Same thing, just bigger. It's also possible, although never mentioned, that it was coated with some sort of chemical to numb the area, not unlike a local anaesthetic.
    3. Those belts are designed to be worn tightly, or were at least demonstrated to be so. So long as the pressure is there, almost anything can act as a means of stopping blood loss.
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