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  1. #2961
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    I really quite liked Fire Walk With Me. Im actually kind of glad I skipped the middle of Season 2 to the last 4 episodes feel like I didn't miss much.

    Finished rewatch of Season 2 of Lost the one where everyone has Island visions still a mixture of great episodes with some poor ones. Mister Eko is a really great character though. I don't really get Shannons episode it seems like they were finally doing something with her and then she gets killed off what is the point of that?Also I still like the episode Dave even if no one else does.

    Onto Season 3,its a real shame the actor who played Eko had so many problems with location and crew his final episode is really lame and its clear he didn't really give a damn on set and he wasn't there that much time. Oh my god the cage stuff goes on to long. Thank god for Flashes before your eyes giving me a barmy time travel story vonnected to a really emotional tragedy for Desmonds character.

  2. #2962
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    I finished rewatching The Wire yesterday and it was every bit as great as I remembered it. The fifth season may not have been quite as good as the rest, but I didn't feel like it should have ended earlier. The stuff with the staged killings, the illegal wiretap and the reporter was a bit far-fetched, I admit, but I still very much enjoyed the season and the conclusion was great.

    I'm considering watching Treme now, how is it?

  3. #2963
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    I'm considering watching Treme now, how is it?
    Still better than most of the TV shows, but not as great as The Wire.
    But if you like jazz and blues, especially from New Orleans then it's must watch.

  4. #2964
    Network Hub Rath's Avatar
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    Decided to give Halt And Catch Fire a go now that the first season has finished. I thought it might be difficult to enjoy, given my abject hatred of the 80s, but damn that is a nice intro;

    "Men shall never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." - Diderot

  5. #2965
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    Just finished Crossbones. Malcovich dominates the scene and I think show worth watching for his performance alone. Though other actors not bad too, story pretty fun and a lot thigh happen.

    After 4th episode of The Strain felt very disappointed. 4 hours of Prometheus level of stupidity. Main protagonist scientist are dumb, other humans are dumb, old "Van Helsing" grim and dumb, main villains just looking at window and don't do anything.

  6. #2966
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Twin Peaks is definitely just taking the piss now. [Spoiler]Ladies and gentlemen, Josie...suddenly died![/spoiler] Come on. Come on. Come on.

    Screw this show. Screw everything about it. I hate it. It's bad. It's making me feel bad. I feel like I'm wasting my time. My time is definitely being wasted.

    At least there aren't too many episodes left, I suppose.
    There are only 2 kinds of people on the world: Those who like Twin Peaks and those who actually see the second half of the second season.
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  7. #2967
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    Watched recently:

    The Amazing Race
    is seeing us catch up on about 20 seasons' worth. Great reality show / game show about teams of two racing around the world doing various tasks. You get to see some really cool stuff, far more fun that your average travel show.

    Person of Interest
    - dull for about half a season, but on the second half of season one and it's getting into gear, with various different plot arcs coming out in different episodes, I'm reliably ensured it only gets better.

  8. #2968
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    Did anyone watch 24 - Live another day?

    I finally got around to watching the last 2 episodes after being interrupted by moving house... but I haven't seen anyone else mention it on here. What did people think?

  9. #2969
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by somini View Post
    There are only 2 kinds of people on the world: Those who like Twin Peaks and those who actually see the second half of the second season.
    Ha!

    I want to explain a scene that happened in another episode of Twin Peaks I watched. Minimal context, apart from necessary for explanation and no spoilers, so that anyone can read.

    Two people are sitting in a café, talking. One is a little hungover and unwell, the other in a characteristically normal chipper mood. The waiter/waitress comes over to get their orders and the happy one starts talking with this person. It is clear there is some chemistry between the two. As the server leaves to complete the order, the two on the table are left talking. The other one then says, "How long have you been in love with [them] for?"

    This made me very angry. It highlights several failings that Twin Peaks has as well as how broken its own sense of narrative is, which is an astonishing turn of events.

    1) Basically every main character had, has or is having an affair with someone else. Sometimes with more than one person. It's chain adultery and whilst it's sort of, I guess, understandable in the younger ones, it's still far-fetched. On top of that, with no more than half a dozen episodes to go, yet another relationship has been highlighted. Granted, it's a much older one, but it's yet another addition that is unnecessary.

    I'm not against this soap-like element of the show because it always was one, but it's simply boring that everyone wants or has someone else. It's also lazy writing that the only connections between people are these salacious relationships rather than literally anything else, perhaps epitomised in the one interesting plot strand in this part of the show being born from, you guessed it, an affair (although whilst it was perhaps not physical, it is certainly implied it was at least emotional). I'd say it was the show running out of ideas, but it's pretty much been always like this.

    2) The person saying the line? Their partner is no longer in the show. How badly did it impact them? One of the main plot points of the entire previous episode was them having a break-down. Considering how time tries to move at a relatively slow pace, it is inconceivable that someone would've got themselves into such a stupor that they would even begin asking questions of this sort to someone else, in an up-beat manner no less, and then have no impact on their own mental being. If you're being this loose with how important relationships are, and whilst there are a silly amount of affairs they do largely have some significant importance to the characters, it completely diminishes any emotional response I am supposed to have to that character's situation and numbs the interest I have on any of their other actions. If anything the question asked by someone in a similar state in real life would be more bitter, more "You don't really love them, not like I loved [insert name here]."

    Again, this is not a show that tries to paint itself as authentic to human interactions, but you've literally pointed a gun at the person you were talking to because you got incredibly drunk out of grief. This is actually Star Trek: Voyager levels of "Next week everything is perfect." No, screw you. It's bad.

    3) The waiter/waitress only appeared in the show in the previous episode where they were making googly eyes with the person then. It is as if characters are introduced only to be love interests for the character to stumble past and onto the next one. The annoying thing is, of all the relationships shown so far, this one actually looks the most reasonable, but because of all the other bull shit going on, this just seems too much.
    3a) One of the reasons it is of particular bull shit is due to the aforementioned plot strand of an incident going back to an affair. The on-going intrigue stemmed from this and it seems ridiculous that the character in question would even look curiously at someone else after the other person in that affair was killed by their partner and is going around killing others now. "I made a mistake." And you're making another one right now. It's not even that particular character being stupid. The whole affair incident seemed stretched to begin with considering how principled the main character in question is, but this just seems stupid.

    4) [Character spoilers]Also, fuck James and his stupid postcard. "He just needed space." No, Donna, he's an arsehole. He's slept with almost every woman that's happened to go his way, but don't worry, he loves you. NOOOOOOO![/spoilers]

    While I'm at it: screw owls, screw bizarre tattoos, screw adding a relationship crutch to another character when their personality was interesting enough anyhow, screw a character being hit on who's been abused in her past two relationships (first physically and emotionally, second one emotionally) and not being pissed off about it (because at that point I'm sure I'd be pissed off at someone hitting on me) and screw probably a load of other things.

    "How long have you been in love with [them] for?" Fuck you. Treat your audience with some damn respect.
    Last edited by The JG Man; 08-08-2014 at 01:22 AM.
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  10. #2970
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    No one answered about 24, so I'm guessing no-one watched it. I don't know if it was a big thing or not that it came back, so I have no idea about viewing figures. I do remember how big 24 was back in the first few seasons though.

    So, my view, was that it was mostly pointless to bring it back.

    It wasn't the worst series of 24 ever (partly due to being only 12 hours and not wearing out its welcome), but it just didn't feel necessary. It didn't really do anything new or innovative, or shake up the formula at all.
    They slightly scaled back on some of the crazy, and slightly focused more on characters at some points, but given that Jack Bauer's character is mostly emotionless, it just made the show feel a little slow paced and dialed back. If they'd done something to shake up his character a bit then it'd have been worthwhile.

    As it was, they tied up a few loose ends from previous series, but the show was mainly a repeat of standard tropes and previously used plot points. Keifer did some great facial acting for about 10 seconds in the last episode, before becoming the terminator and killing everyone. But other than that his character didn't really experience any growth or change.

    It might be because I've gotten older, but I actually found parts of this series more obviously toublesome than previous ones. I know people complained about the old series being very right wing and even racist, but I never really found it to be. But this time it seemed to wear it's political beliefs much more openly on it's sleeve... or maybe I just noticed this time.

    And, while Jack was always rather extreme, he was the good guy up until at least season 6.. but in this one it was pretty hard to cheer for him at times. (though that didn't stop lots of viewers from seemingly cheering when he threw a tied up unarmed woman out of a window because he felt like it).
    there were a few exciting shoot outs, but nothing amazing or that really used the London location. And I found myself not caring that much. The cliffhanger ending format still worked wonders to get me to tune in next week though.

    As I said, there didn't really seem any reason to bring it back unless they had something to say/do. So I can't help but think about what they could have done to shake things up again.
    - They could have jettisoned most of the baggage from the old series (the CIA/CTU office, the US President, etc..).
    - They could have put Jack in a fresh situation, or at least working with new people. (forced to work for MI5/MI6)
    - They could have had him *actually question his beliefs* - I was actually really surprised that they brought him back as still a huge patriot willing to do/risk anything for his country. I was pretty sure they'd bring him back as someone who'd lost faith in his country and it's methods.
    - They could have NOT had generic muslim / foreign bad guys, or had the Anonymous/Assange guys not be 100% wrong/bad guys/idiots.
    - They could have had a muslim / foreign / even british guy/girl turn out to be actually decent and have a major role.
    etc...

  11. #2971
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    The first few episodes were discussed when they aired, but yeah, not much to say is there? It was 24. Since the last series of 24, drones and Wikileaks have been in the news. So they become a plot. And it's in London. Other than that, it's 24 by numbers. Only 12 episodes, but still did the 24 thing of wrapping up Act 1 in episodes 8/9, so we end up with a weirdly truncated second act.

    It's a shame because when it was on air, it was understandable that they couldn't mess with the format much, but bringing it back offered a chance to actually do something different.

  12. #2972
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    Yeah. (although I said a lot, though not much to say).
    I actually think they could've / should've messed with the format. Not the real-time thing, but the expectations. If nothing else, it'd have gotten a lot more publicity if they'd done something unexpected / shocking / nuanced.

    Now I guess I should force myself to finish the last 2 episodes of Orphan Black S2, although I've pretty much lost interest as it has gone further and further off track. Be nice to get it finished for completeness though.

  13. #2973
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    Orphan Black gets thoroughly back on track for those last two episodes, a few silly scenes aside. (Whilst the dancing scene is technically amazing, it's also really silly. You'll know what I'm talking about when you get there, otherwise it's not at all a spoiler.)

    So I finished season 2 of Twin Peaks earlier. Urgh. For the sake of ease, the majority of the rest of this post will be in that snowy white of spoiler town, but to sum up my particular thoughts on the final; shit. Just, shit. Some bull thrown in there as well. I think I'd have perhaps been more offended if I was watching it at the time and was waiting each week in addition/or being far more invested into the show than I am. It loses itself so far up its own arse that it had a slim hope of getting things back on track, but not only does it not do that, it adds 'cliff-hangars' that it seemed happy knowing would not be answered. I don't mean a lingering thought (although the final sequence I think is interesting) but various other plot strands that were included or not wrapped-up for no reason.

    Let's delve into it. [MAJOR SPOILERS]I'll begin with the lead-in to the finale. Miss Twin Peaks, as an idea, is fine. As executed it came off as horribly convoluted. "Hey, what if we can find a way to shoe-horn in most of the female characters in the show despite the fact that several of them are putting themselves in immense danger and are fully aware of this?" "That sounds great!" Urgh. God, they even got Audrey in there when she already had tons on. Christ. That Annie won...I'm not sure is a surprise, but they did so little with her regarding The Lodges that it literally could've been any of the other main characters for all the impact it had.

    So let's move onto the Annie/Coop relationship. It worked. It was an unnecessary addition, but it was one of the most plausible, successful relationships in the show. That nothing of her innocence or purity of soul means anything in The Lodge and was merely at the will of Earle was a bit of a shame. Could she not fight back? Could her soul and mind not have a fight against Earle's? Nope, Earle has her anddddddd that's it. Then Coop comes to the rescue and trades his soul for hers because they happened to be in The Black Lodge (despite The White and Black being the same place, from what I could gather) and Evil Mr. Bob, who paled in comparison in terms of fear over Sarah's monstrous face, apparently being the determinant of soul consumption and control. The race through The Lodge as Evil/Coop tried to catch up to the fleeing Good/Coop was pretty tense and the lunge for the final door was close, but it seemed obvious to me before the mirror sequence that Evil/Coop was the one to make it through.

    Which is odd because as actually interesting and well done the mirror sequence was, it was so blatant. Surely that flicker of confusion as he emptied the tooth paste and you saw a glimpse of Bob in the mirror would've been enough? But no, we must make it abundantly clear because as we've already determined with Coop's character in the last few episodes, we have to spell everything else out absolutely clearly. I suppose it doesn't diminish the impact so much, but even then the crazed repetition of "How's Annie?" would've been sufficient without any imagery. Picture, if you will, Coop going into the bathroom and it cutting to black and you only hearing that repetition? But then I have the power of hind-sight and I'm dwelling on something that I actually did like.

    The rest of he plot strands in the last few episodes did little to interest me. The whole Eckhardt/Martell thing I never really felt like it made complete sense, so the intrigue as to what was in the puzzle box that Catherine had was more comedic relief than anything, but that vault scene was something else altogether. Let's put aside the fact that there's absolutely no answer to the health of the three people presumably most likely to be hurt, nor Audrey's immense stupidity in chaining herself to a door...that was open (!), but why on earth introduce that element when you almost assuredly knew you'd be unable to conclude it? Why even have the key in the box and not just a damn answer to whatever nonsense was going on in that sub-plot? That scene was well directed though, so it had that going for it.

    As for Audrey...a damn shame. The love interest added nothing to her character when she already had lots of intricacies and interest about her already. Her "I'm a virgin, make love to me line" was hilarious because it was quite clearly so un-Audrey. And I'm not saying that people don't influence people, nor that love doesn't make you reflect on your own personality, but...this is Audrey. The only thing believable about that line was her being a virgin because she was always purposefully a bit distant and deviant. Her having a sudden emotional crutch was lame. Even when she fancied Coop, which given the time-spawn of Twin Peaks was an amount of days, the impact on her actions was nothing that felt out-of-character. She wanted to play up to Coop, sure, but she did it in her own way. Hell, her infiltration of One Eyed Jack's was a hell of a lot better than Coop and Truman's!

    Then there's Ben Horne. And by extension Donna, I guess, because for some strange reason we needed to give Donna more of what to do in this series despite her being one of the main instigators of finding out what the hell happened to her best friend (before poaching her boyfriend and then losing him and then saying him from being a murder suspect and then receiving a post card and who the hell cares any more?). Why is there not a single, functional family unit left in Twin Peaks? One murder was enough to send the town into a melt-down, but after a spate of them over the course of the show, they seem to just brush it off. Anyhow, I'm getting distracted. Much like the writers clearly were when they felt the need to make her a love-child between her mother and Ben Horne. Whhhhhhhhhhhy. Why must Ben Horne, an admittedly great character, have even more on his plate on top of his cheesy "Can I be a nice guy?" thing. But then Horne gets KO'd because a doctor inflicts a serious injury on him which is funny for a variety of reasons.

    While we're on the subject of distractions, I would like literally a single point in favour of why Lana (the red haired woman) existed in the show other than to give the Mayor a bit more screen-time. Literally, anything you can come up with. What a complete waste of time and attention.

    Oh, yeah, and it's confirmed that Josie died of Fear. Uh huh. Padme'd!
    [/SPOILERS]

    I think there's more. I mean, there's probably more, but god knows that's enough to go on with for the moment. They completely dropped the ball with the second season bar The Reveal and even then I wasn't entirely convinced. The introduction of Earle was interesting enough, but too little too late. What Twin Peaks needed to be was a self-contained series of however many episodes and then done. But then we get the filler stuff of Ghost Wood and The Lady From The Bar and the nonsense that was/is The White/Black Lodge and Affairs and Ed/Norma/Nadine and...

    That behind-the-scenes production problems caused issues is not really a get-out-of-jail-free card, it's merely an explanation. The execution of Twin Peaks was far worse than it thought it was and too strained to interesting, enjoyable and importantly consistent entertainment. Interesting direction, characterisation and script by themselves can only go so far, but you actually have to damn well do something with them. Whilst the first season was entertaining and certifiably "good" (not great, but good) and perhaps sums up the best of what the show could offer, I never really felt like the show really pushed its own worth as much or as often as it could have. The signs were there, it could do it, but they were ultimately fleeting.

    Fire Walk With Me comes tomorrow so I can finally rid myself of this show. It's maybe more disappointing that my enjoyment of the show just went completely down the toilet considering it started good and had the potential to keep that up rather than a show that never even had a glimmer of success and stayed that way until its season 9 end.

    Freak and Geeks remains excellent though. Everything about the jumpsuit in the latest episode had me squirming out of my chair from embarrassment as well as laughing tons, but particularly the strut down the school corridor. I'll do a proper write-up on my thoughts of that show once I (unfortunately) finish it. Its strengths permeate the show's very core and whilst episode-to-episode there are important things or story-lines, they play second-fiddle to the solid foundation the rest of the show has.
    Last edited by The JG Man; 10-08-2014 at 11:49 PM.
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  14. #2974
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    I'm sorry you didn't like the final episode. To me, it marks one of the greatest finales ever.

    I'm going to skip the white text, but I think I can get away with it.

    Cooper in the black lodge was not just interesting, it was necessary. It was foreordained from the first episode; in fact, it mirrored the ending of the pilot (if you ever saw that).

    From the darkness of future past,
    The magician longs to see
    One path between two worlds
    Fire walk with me.


    What was essential to the rest of the finale was that it emphasized Cooper's outcome-- that is, the tragedy of the small, mirrored in the tragedy of the large. Just like 1000 deaths are not just a statistic, the end of Twin Peaks is Cooper's end, magnified throughout the town.

    But the Black Lodge, and that final line, repeated-- and, for me, Audrey's fate-- affected me so powerfully. I can imagine how angry the rest of the world was with Twin Peaks.

    Plus, wasn't that the episode with the most beautiful song in all of Twin Peaks? The sycamore trees.

  15. #2975
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus The JG Man's Avatar
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    I do talk about that in my white text, but not too much and with a different context/approach. I'll spoiler it because, well, the whole episode is built around it.

    [Spoilers]So The Red Room I never really had too much of a problem with, actually. When it's first introduced it is a complete mind screw, but when it happened, I was excited and wanted to see what impact it would go on to have (as well as just bewilderment). How much of The Red Room, and the characters contained within, were just Cooper's psyche or dreams? It is...or I should say, was, an interesting question. That the supernatural elements as a whole were relatively minimal in s1 means that when they come full force into s2, really peaking with the finale and Leland, it actually feels a little bit at odd. I mean, take the Fire Walk With Me passage; it could be as supernatural as it is creepy psycho mantra. That's not to say it's a false appreciation, but it's initially used as a hook, perhaps some sort of clue. The supernatural definition is added much later on.

    Whilst the town has its eccentricities, the idea that actually, it sits on the door-way to heaven and hell, or something similar to those, just knocked the wind out of the sails for me. It's neither well explored or integrated sufficiently early enough for it, for me, to not come over as some sort of ret-con and change of tone. Perhaps that would change with a re-watch with forward knowledge, but even if you exclude the supernatural stuff, there's far too much in there to make me not want to re-watch.

    As for Cooper exploring The Lodge, it makes sense it's him (apart from Annie who I make an explanation for in my previous post); he's the detective, the explorer of fact and reality. Narratively it makes sense too, considering he's the only person who as a person has gone into it, rather than just their soul (implied with Laura and Leland). Similarly for Earle, who is clearly a seeker of death (others and I think, perhaps more so, his own). His exit of it is a good demonstration of how Twin Peaks, the place, has changed him too, especially with the ending as it is.
    [/spoilers]

    I think by that point though I'd just put up with so much preceding bull that it was wearing thin on me. It really needed to be an episode of its own rather than a long, albeit well paced, very curious sequence. It needed to be free of all the whole silly strands going on so it could be unfiltered in its exploration. I also thought that we'd be seeing it again and was proven correct, which I suppose is cool. It was the only part of the finale I thought was actually enjoyable because it was clear what the intention of it was going in, coming out and it having minimal interruption to make sure it could happen.
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  16. #2976
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Yeah I kind of agree with you there the black lodge and the mythology around it I thought didn't really fit the show and weakened what cam before it(it was not about good and evil in that senses) but Lynch I thought saved it by putting some of the themes he was telling in there, also by pretty much making it into a creepy funhouse ride. I really liked the finale though and there was interesting things in there, I feel that bank scene is just an epic troll.

  17. #2977
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    Just because it's a good idea by itself doesn't mean it should happen though. The final was stitched together with conflicting tones and barely any resolution. This is not a story that aims to let you 'figure the rest out', as plenty of it is directly explained, it's a story that goes "Errm...errr, yeah, this happens and I dunno what the rest, but hey, STUFF!" and if you dress that up nicely enough it can sometimes seem like it's a conclusion. It's clear that sequence was intended to be in the finale, but it needed to have more after it or beforehand to wrap up even half of what else was going on in the show.

    I think if you were to ask people what was memorable about the finale of Twin Peaks, they'd say that sequence and not its narrative content. Stylistically slick and cool, but that's about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    and, for me, Audrey's fate-- affected me so powerfully.
    I just don't see how. Even with her character being degraded over the last run of episodes, she still remains so powerful as a character compared to the rest of the cast, but that was, as Xercies says, "an epic troll." The character is literally forgotten about. It's not even giving them any sort of conclusion making it perhaps the worst sin of all. At least with a bad ending it's there, it's something you can argue, discuss, mentally challenge. Just as the end of s1 was almost a parody in terms of the sheer number of narrative hooks, s2's felt like a parody of show finales that just don't know how to wrap everything up.

    Anyhow, Fire Walk With Me. Snoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooore. What a slow, gruelling two hours. Other than sparse pieces of interest, I feel like very little is gleaned. Just utterly dull to watch. "Hey, remember how that thing happened and was talked about? HERE'S THE THING!" Urrgh. But hey, it fixed one of the things I had a problem with in s2, that they actually go to bloody school at some point! And hey, if you get bored of that, here's some breasts and drug taking and...

    Like the ending of s2, I felt like various characters were holding the Idiot Ball, but at this point I literally just do not care any more. I've suffered through enough that I no longer feel like I can completely put down in words why it just went wrong. Donna's replacement was also highly distracting, but I figured that was because maybe there was an unwillingness to do the topless scene (or maybe she looked at the script and said "No", I'm open to both). The one thing that particularly stood out to me above all else, and spoilers because it's to do with the ending of s2, is that I liked how, albeit briefly, you saw Cooper inside The Red Room trying to make sense of what was going on. That wasn't enough though. No other interactions that gave merit to his character.

    Also, David Bowie?

    I give up.
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  18. #2978
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    Quote Originally Posted by The JG Man View Post
    Anyhow, Fire Walk With Me. Snoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooore. What a slow, gruelling two hours.
    Well, then you're in luck! The upcoming Bluray release has 90 minutes of new unreleased footage! Happy day!

  19. #2979
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    To me Fire Walk With Me is not a film for answers, its a film that really is a grounded horror film about the really horrible and nasty stuff that the killer being who he is would bring up. There is some really cool scenes, I really liked the opening which has nothing to do with anything, the weirdness is still pretty good. I wil lagree the other Twin Peaks stuff is a little boring though.

  20. #2980
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus somini's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fanbuoy View Post
    Well, then you're in luck! The upcoming Bluray release has 90 minutes of new unreleased footage! Happy day!
    As if the last release wasn't already weapons-grade crap. Good lord.
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