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  1. #1341
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    How can I say more about Game Of Thrones its continually excellent.

    Clash of Kings the book is better than the show, not through any reason other than it's able to go into much more detail.


    I may have to re-read it but I actually kind of disagree with this I think the season on the whole is better then the book because it felt more cohesive, one of the problems of the book was that it was the transition between the very singular narrative of the first book to the sweeping epic of the third on and I don't think it did it that well or that cohesively I thought the show made a lot of good decisions in how to make it all cohesive and it was just so good. Only really Arya's storyline would I say the show dropped the ball on which I think there only slowly starting to rectify in the current season.

  2. #1342
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Watched the latest Game of Thrones, much more exposition/character driven this week after the smorgasbord of action in last weeks episode but still time for some awesome moments.

    As ever any scene featuring the small council table steals the show - seeing Tywin laying down the law to his children once again was excellent.

    @ Xercies

    I really like the way Arya is played but I agree that her storyline just doesn't feel right and (potential book spoilers ahead - don't reveal if you are just watching the TV show! it's a shame as things are only going to get worse. Arya went from one of my favourite characters in the books to almost (but not quite) Bran levels of me not giving a toss about her. Yes she's on the way to becoming an ultimate badass and when she gets back in the mix she's going to be fun but I'm really not looking forward to her plotline in forthcoming seasons - she's just too isolated and left treading water (the end of this one should be OK)
    Last edited by Lambchops; 29-04-2013 at 09:43 PM.

  3. #1343
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    I may have to re-read it but I actually kind of disagree with this I think the season on the whole is better then the book because it felt more cohesive, one of the problems of the book was that it was the transition between the very singular narrative of the first book to the sweeping epic of the third on and I don't think it did it that well or that cohesively I thought the show made a lot of good decisions in how to make it all cohesive and it was just so good. Only really Arya's storyline would I say the show dropped the ball on which I think there only slowly starting to rectify in the current season.
    The show has done a terrible job illustrating why Jaime's betrayal as Hand of the King was so deplorable, considering that our entire frame of reference for The Mad King is how awful he was. Every other character has done amoral, wicked things for their own benefit, so why Jaime has been ostracized as the Kingslayer for three seasons has never really been clear. It wasn't until he justified himself to Brienne, whose own fealty was swayed by his recounting, as well as that old guy's (the show is also terrible at helping me remember everyone's names) story about all the "horrible kings" he served, that it was really clear how seriously the position of Hand of the King was taken.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    As ever any scene featuring the small council table steals the show
    Lena Headey's delivery when she said "Yes, it is" was absolutely perfect.
    Last edited by sabrage; 29-04-2013 at 09:40 PM.

  4. #1344
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    Oh I remembered one thing, lots and lots of sexy butts this episode from both genders :D

    @Lambchops

    I would agree with you in the book it makes sense why she would do the whole thing that she does later on but because the series skipped all that stuff in Harrenhal about her becoming a bit of a murderer and then they are only really barely showing it here(though I would say that scene where she lunges for the Hound is a good start) its going to be very confusing and not all that exciting when it comes to it.

  5. #1345
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Thrones is kicking it for sure. General thoughts: -

    Beric and the hound was pretty awesome, and a lot of the interplay was well done. I especially like Jorah putting Barristan in his place (Fuck you and the horse you rode in on old man...you're no one here). Good to see Stannis taking stock, but goddamn it if Selyse doesn't make Lysa Arryn look sane (WTF with the pickle jars? Crazy bitch territory confirmed). Jamie/brienne was a great scene. Really like how they are bringing some reason to Jamie, and sympathy from Brienne. Tywin laying the smackdown at the end was tops.

    Hyped for next week :)
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  6. #1346
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Only really Arya's storyline would I say the show dropped the ball on which I think there only slowly starting to rectify in the current season.
    I think they messed up a bit with Jon's too...I don't know it's sort of hard to compare them now. It's no longer a straight adaption, like the first season mostly was and I think it works well. But I think Blackwater in the book was obviously better (couldn't be helped) and some of the stuff with Storms End was better explored/laid out.
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  7. #1347
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Also I love the TV version of Roose Bolton. He didn't get to stare ominously into the middle distance this week whilst muttering something or other (alas) but he did get to be a dick to Jaime, which was fun.

  8. #1348
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Drake Sigar's Avatar
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    Cersei looked as if she'd been slapped with a fish.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    I really like the way Arya is played but I agree that her storyline just doesn't feel right and (potential book spoilers ahead - don't reveal if you are just watching the TV show! it's a shame as things are only going to get worse. Arya went from one of my favourite characters in the books to almost (but not quite) Bran levels of me not giving a toss about her. Yes she's on the way to becoming an ultimate badass and when she gets back in the mix she's going to be fun but I'm really not looking forward to her plotline in forthcoming seasons - she's just too isolated and left treading water (the end of this one should be OK)
    I think the problem is you know it's going to be years before she's trained and ready to get back in there, and we've already had more than enough of that sort of thing. It's like a Rocky film without the montage, and you're sat there watching every second of his 6-12 week training. Snore! We don't want to be reminded it takes absurd amounts of time to actually accomplish anything.

  9. #1349
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    On the "Books or TV" for Song of Ice and FIre/Game of Thrones:

    I have read all the former and watched the first two seasons of the latter. I would reccommend just watching the show, although possibly waiting until the end of a season to binge on it (since Season 2 had a LOT of slow episodes and was an entire season building up to one episode). It is definitely weaker on the courtly intrigue and in-depth character studies (Jaime has been butchered. And not in the right way :p), but I find it does a much better job of overall pacing and its portrayal of Littlefinger is considerably more nuanced (book Littlefinger is "he is a dick who is going to betray you" and "he has a weird obsession with the Tully/Stark women". The show paints him as a master of xanatos speed chess from much earlier on).

    Also, the books drag on a lot around the point the show is about to hit, largely because they were never meant to cover that point and Martin was originally planning a timeskip. And it really shows. And while the courtly intrigue is less intriguing on the show, it is also something of a shaggy dog story in the grand scheme of the story, so that might be for the best. The books take a hit because Martin did such a great job on the politics in the first book or two that it really hurt to not keep that strong focus, whereas the show seems more focused on the overall plot.

    But, most importantly: Martin is getting old, is quite overweight, and enjoys to eat delicious, if unhealthy, food. He still has two or three books left to write and has expressed interest in NOT spending the rest of his life writing A Song of Ice and Fire and will be working on his other projects as well. So on the off chance he does kick off before he finishes the books, he has made it a point to give the showrunners the information needed to finish the story. Whereas he will most likely spend his last moments of life burning and destroying all his manuscripts so that nobody can finish the books (the man is kind of very protective of his writing), so we won't get something like Wheel of Time or Hitchhiker's Guide where an author is chosen to finish the story as per the existing notes. And as the seasons go on, the show is diverging more and more from the books, so... yeah.
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  10. #1350
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Everyone I've seen suggests reading at least the first 3 books as generally CoK/Storm of Swords seem to be considered the best. I've been watching the show and then the corresponding book afterwards, and I definitely get more from the book, though the TV show has that great cliffhanger ability the books don't. If I had to pick one or the other though, well, it'd be the books.
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  11. #1351
    Lesser Hivemind Node Juan Carlo's Avatar
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    Honestly, if you like to read then obviously read the books. If you don't like to read, then the TV show is just fine. If you get really invested in the show you'll probably want to read the books anyway, but I know people who just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is without feeling the need to get really obsessed with all the minutia of the universe. So for them just watching the show is fine.

  12. #1352
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Wildcard: If you drive for a living, get the books on tape.

  13. #1353
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Skalpadda's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone, I'm getting the urge to read them just so I can read the spoiler text on the internet now.

    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    Wildcard: If you drive for a living, get the books on tape.
    I don't drive for a living but I walk for an hour or two every day (well mostly, at least I aim to do so) and like listening to podcasts and audiobooks while I do, so grabbing them on audio sounds like a good idea.

  14. #1354
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sabrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skalpadda View Post
    I don't drive for a living but I walk
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  15. #1355
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    The show has done a terrible job illustrating why Jaime's betrayal as Hand of the King was so deplorable
    Actually Jaime was just part of the Kingsguard. Tywin Lannister was hand of the king.

    /nitpick.

    I think one of the bigger problems in the show was the lack of set up for Robert's rebellion, the backstory that defines the whole situation and all the lines of turmoil being exploited by the various factions. The Mad King's crimes aren't so clear, or how badly the Stark's losses are kind of par for the course in the civil wars.

    The major problem between the books and the show is that the books tread a lot of water. It's interesting most of the time but it doesn't actually progress things very far by the later novels, particularly with the introduction of yet more viewpoint characters and their assorted casts. This doesn't work for the TV show as they have to keep people engaged.

    I don't think they'll do the whole Dorne thing for example. For a start, The Mountain is barely a character in this - and until just now, neither was Beric Dondarrion. One of the downsides of not having so much incidental dialogue, the snippets of small talk and conversation that fleshes out the world beyond the narrations POV and add the myths (the rural legends, heh) and folk tales of the land.

  16. #1356
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sabrage View Post
    The show has done a terrible job illustrating why Jaime's betrayal as Hand of the King was so deplorable, considering that our entire frame of reference for The Mad King is how awful he was.
    From someone who hasn't read past the first book, the tv show and the actor playing Jaime have both done a good job of keeping you guessing his character. For the first two and a half seasons he's completely un-likeable to the point that you'd almost believe everything you hear about him. So if everyone is saying he's a bastard for betraying a King, regardless of that Kings mental state, you (as an uninformed viewer) are likely to believe them.

    It's not until now that he's actually starting to come across as possibly being human and not just completely self-centred on his own agendas. But even at that, I still can't tell if he's lying or not, was what he said true? Did his wounds cloud his judgement and make him spill his guts? Did he lie about it all thinking that Brienne would be likely to believe him and sympatise with him, making her think "his wounds must be making him open mouthed". Who knows!?* It makes for great tv though.

    *probably people who've read the books, but I sure as hell don't know.
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  17. #1357
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    Yeah I think the shows done fine on that front. I think with it being so visual based they can save surprises/interesting plot points in the book for much grander moments in the TV show. Jaime is probably one of the hardest to show as you can't get inside his head like you can in the books.
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  18. #1358
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Xercies's Avatar
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    The major problem between the books and the show is that the books tread a lot of water. It's interesting most of the time but it doesn't actually progress things very far by the later novels, particularly with the introduction of yet more viewpoint characters and their assorted casts. This doesn't work for the TV show as they have to keep people engaged.


    One of the reasons why I'm very interested how they adapt book 4 I would think there going to have to change a lot of the Cersei storyline, having Margery be an important part this season I think is going to help that though.

    I don't think they'll do the whole Dorne thing for example. For a start, The Mountain is barely a character in this - and until just now, neither was Beric Dondarrion. One of the downsides of not having so much incidental dialogue, the snippets of small talk and conversation that fleshes out the world beyond the narrations POV and add the myths (the rural legends, heh) and folk tales of the land.


    The Dorne thing is very important though for later books so they kind of have to, I guess one of the reasons why they are focusing on them a little bit more then they focused on them in the book to get across they are very important. Also to be fair the Mountain wasn't much of a character in the book that much either.

  19. #1359
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus gundato's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xercies View Post
    [/COLOR]

    One of the reasons why I'm very interested how they adapt book 4 I would think there going to have to change a lot of the Cersei storyline, having Margery be an important part this season I think is going to help that though.



    The Dorne thing is very important though for later books so they kind of have to, I guess one of the reasons why they are focusing on them a little bit more then they focused on them in the book to get across they are very important. Also to be fair the Mountain wasn't much of a character in the book that much either.
    Actually, the show has been interesting because of what they do and don't focus on. While Bran is obviously going to be important and is just being ignored (probably because HBO doesn't want to run the risk of needing a new actor if the kid leaves), there has been some stuff that, in light of events in the recent books, makes me wonder. Because HBO actually knows what is going to happen and who needs to be where.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sketch View Post
    Everyone I've seen suggests reading at least the first 3 books as generally CoK/Storm of Swords seem to be considered the best. I've been watching the show and then the corresponding book afterwards, and I definitely get more from the book, though the TV show has that great cliffhanger ability the books don't. If I had to pick one or the other though, well, it'd be the books.
    I can actually agree with that. The first 2-3 books are really quite good. It is just the later books (around when there should have been a timeskip) that drag on. I just know that I have issues leaving a series unfinished and the later books are a real slog. So if people want to avoid it (especially with the very real possibility of having to watch the TV show for closure anyway), I figure they should
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  20. #1360
    Network Hub Rath's Avatar
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    I'm rewatching Battlestar Galactica. Almost at the end of season 2, and I am finding it ridiculously distracting that they cut the corners off all their printed matter. But for the record, if you want to convince someone of the worth of Blu-Ray, show them the detail in Edward James Olmos' face in 1080p.

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