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  1. #41
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    That isn't the reason being given here.

  2. #42
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph-Sulphur View Post
    I don't understand why people care about this so much. I've not seen a shred of evidence suggesting that cavalier attitudes to the use of the word "rape" make anyone more likely to commit the crime. If you care about the issue volunteer or donate to a charity like this one, don't get angry at insensitive people on the internet.
    They're more saying that the mention of rape gives mental distress to victims of rape. It's still a quixotic battle for internet censorship, but hey.
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  3. #43
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph-Sulphur View Post
    I don't understand why people care about this so much. I've not seen a shred of evidence suggesting that cavalier attitudes to the use of the word "rape" make anyone more likely to commit the crime. If you care about the issue volunteer or donate to a charity like this one, don't get angry at insensitive people on the internet.
    Or we can get angry at insensitive people on the internet and point out the errors of their ways? Turning a blind eye solves nothing.


  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    They're more saying that the mention of rape gives mental distress to victims of rape.
    No one said that either.

  5. #45
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shane View Post
    No one said that either.
    I dunno if you're aware of this, Shane, but this isn't the first time people have discussed the common usage of the verb 'rape' in gamer lingo. In the name of brevity, can we skip the foreplay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Or we can get angry at insensitive people on the internet and point out the errors of their ways? Turning a blind eye solves nothing.
    You're free to get angry. When you come up with a viable solution, however, do not hesitate to tell the rest of us.
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  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    They're more saying that the mention of rape gives mental distress to victims of rape. It's still a quixotic battle for internet censorship, but hey.
    The original point of me posting the thread that caused this whole thing is that I felt that the word rape was being used a bit too casually by someone who would not do so when he understood the full meaning. I wished to point out the full meaning. I do not get angry at the people who use the word rape in a casual manner, I just think that it is very childish to do so - like making holocaust jokes.

  7. #47
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Or we can get angry at insensitive people on the internet and point out the errors of their ways? Turning a blind eye solves nothing.
    I don't think getting angry is likely to be very productive. Some people are jerks and will use such language specifically because they know it upsets some people; by getting angry at them you're merely playing into their hands. Disdain is a far better choice here.

    Other people may not be jerks, but if confronted may become very defensive (in the sense of UR NOT THE BOSS OF ME FREE SPEECH, etc.) and raising the topic in anger makes this kind of response far more likely. The goal should be to bypass this defensive response and instead to appeal to their empathy for others. It is important that the speaker not feel besieged: it is not that they spoke with intent to harm, rather that their words may inadvertently have been hurtful to someone. They should not feel pressured to alter their use of language, the decision must be their own and they must feel this to be so.

    And there should be give and take to this. Habitual language does not change overnight. Much as the speaker should be encouraged to consider the effects of their words upon others, so the person hearing the speech should be encouraged to consider the intent of the speaker.

    At least such are the distillations of my own experiences.
    Last edited by Rii; 30-04-2012 at 09:33 PM.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Or we can get angry at insensitive people on the internet and point out the errors of their ways? Turning a blind eye solves nothing.
    I'm not sure that hectoring otherwise perfectly reasonable people who may use the word rape every so often is a great idea. People don't pick their words at the best of times, let alone when they're being zerg rushed in Starcraft 2, chased by three brutes in Mass Effect 3 or whatever. When I play L4D2 with my IRL friends, who aren't idiots and who wouldn't dream of intentionally belittling or insulting a victim of rape uses the word "rape" while we're being swarmed, it would probably do more harm than good to lecture them on how they are insensitive etc.
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  9. #49
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    The original point of me posting the thread that caused this whole thing is that I felt that the word rape was being used a bit too casually by someone who would not do so when he understood the full meaning. I wished to point out the full meaning. I do not get angry at the people who use the word rape in a casual manner, I just think that it is very childish to do so - like making holocaust jokes.
    I sincerely doubt you've ever met people who don't fully understand rape or the holocaust, and I will repeat that it's a quixotic endeavor to rub it in their faces, because they'll just resent you for your needling that "hey, guys, rape (and the holocaust) is bad."
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  10. #50
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Sure, getting angry is pointless, but it's just as ignorant to not say "Wait a minute, do you mind? That's not a good thing to say" because you're not addressing the problem and instead are letting it propagate.


  11. #51
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Sure, getting angry is pointless, but it's just as ignorant to not say "Wait a minute, do you mind? That's not a good thing to say" because you're not addressing the problem and instead are letting it propagate.
    I'm all for telling the guy to STFU. But if that's all we're concluding, this thread's pointless.
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  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I'm all for telling the guy to STFU. But if that's all we're concluding, this thread's pointless.
    The thread was actually asking questions of those who already feel that cavalier use of rape language is objectionable. So far we have pieces of an explanation (including my own circularity-threatening contribution that "its bad because people think it is bad") but not much in the way of a rational justification -- at least not one that doesn't also lead us to question our comfort with other violence-laden metaphors.
    Last edited by Rii; 30-04-2012 at 10:10 PM.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    The thread was actually asking questions of those who already feel that cavalier use of rape language is objectionable. So far we have pieces of an explanation (including my own circularity-threatening contribution that "its bad because people think it is bad") but not much in the way of a rational justification -- at least not one that doesn't also lead us to question our comfort with other violence-laden metaphors.
    Because people are self-centered hypocrites.
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  14. #54
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    You see the game today? Those guys got disemboweled out there.

  15. #55
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    You see the game today? Those guys got disemboweled out there.


    This man is offended by your callous and immature usage of that word.
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  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    The original point of me posting the thread that caused this whole thing is that I felt that the word rape was being used a bit too casually by someone who would not do so when he understood the full meaning.
    I've been thinking about this too. I fairly regularly make jokes about punching/smacking/stabbing/strangling/etc. my coworkers and clients (because they're fucking idiots). However, I work with several people who come from some of the more violent parts of the world (central africa, to be specific), and they do not appreciate hearing that kind of stuff. Perhaps joking about killing and murdering is seen as less tasteless because most people haven't experienced the violent death of friends or family member, therefore it doesn't really hit home with the majority. Unfortunately, many (most?) of us don't have to think very hard to find someone we know and care about who's been a victim of sexual violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph-Sulphur View Post
    I'm not sure that hectoring otherwise perfectly reasonable people who may use the word rape every so often is a great idea. People don't pick their words at the best of times, let alone when they're being zerg rushed in Starcraft 2, chased by three brutes in Mass Effect 3 or whatever. When I play L4D2 with my IRL friends, who aren't idiots and who wouldn't dream of intentionally belittling or insulting a victim of rape uses the word "rape" while we're being swarmed, it would probably do more harm than good to lecture them on how they are insensitive etc.
    I'm not sure if intense sections of video games can really be used to excuse behaviour. If my girlfriend talked to me while I was in a particularly intense game of minesweeper and I called her a stupid-whore-why-are-you-interrupting-me-during-my-vidja-game-time, pretty sure she'd be well within her rights to take me to task on that.

    Also, with regards to the "why bother" of the last few posts, which I'm far too lazy to quote or paraphrase, why bother with anything? If someone's throwing around "fags" and "niggers" during a game, why bother saying anything? (of course, maybe they're being zerg rushed and their behaviour should be excused)

    It's all in how it's approached. If I come at someone all like "you're an ignorant fuck-twat and you're racist and offensive", they're going to get very defensive (and rightfully so, because I'm attacking them) and we'll never get anything accomplished. If I can be a little more tactful and get to why the word(s) are an issue, then we might get somewhere.

  17. #57
    Obscure Node Fruppy's Avatar
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    I have been guilty of using the term "rape" to explain how I demolished my enemies in a video game many times.

    Been guilty of using a lot of terms which could be considered very disrespectful. Although, my words are usually weightless, since I don't intend to harm anyone. The only weight behind them is maybe a history of torment experienced by an individual who is witness to my words. Sorry.

    I try to limit myself from using these terms, but sometimes my lips is like a oowop as I start to spray it.
    Last edited by Fruppy; 01-05-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus mickygor's Avatar
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    I consider the implication behind the word, and the context in which it is used, to be more important than how other people interpret it. I'm willing to accept that people would judge me insensitive for that, I care little for for what others think of me, but, for example, there is no more powerful word than rape when describing what the Europeans did to the colonies, most notably Africa. Of course, I can only speak on a personal level, but I don't use rape to describe situations in video games or sports. That's purely because I find the word "owned" suffices - I do not consider language taboo. It should not ever be considered taboo.

    If the word rape upsets someone that hears me using it, I will apologise if they voice their issue with it. I will not stop using the word, however. I'll not spend my life treading on eggshells, fearing that words like stump might upset amputees, or in this case that rape upsets rape victims. Do they fear fields of yellow too?
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  19. #59
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    If the word rape upsets someone that hears me using it, I will apologise if they voice their issue with it. I will not stop using the word, however. I'll not spend my life treading on eggshells, fearing that words like stump might upset amputees, or in this case that rape upsets rape victims. Do they fear fields of yellow too?
    We gots us a strawman here. "Stump" does not, as far as I'm aware, have any offensive meaning to amputees. Could be wrong, of course.

    Casual use of words desensitises them, it erodes their power. I mean look at the "n word", used mostly for African Americans. Go back 100 years ago, it wasn't considered that offensive (if at all) to say. You might refer to the "n*cough*" down the road. But you do that now? You're using a word that has gone the opposite direction. It's stayed as a term that subjugates black people, but it's become a word that isn't proper to use because of everything it carries with it. It's not just a slight, it has the weight of many years of slavery and racial hate attached to it.

    Using the word "rape" casually is just so... stupid. If you say "I'll rape you at that game", you're equating your competitive spirit with the highly destructive, humiliating and horrific act of violating someone in a sexual manner. Why, in that situation, use the word "rape"? What does it add to your statement? Nothing! What's wrong with words like "destroy", "annihilate" or anything like that? They make more sense in that context, and don't carry any where near as much weight in our society.


  20. #60
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Casual use of words desensitises them, it erodes their power.
    While I don't disagree that the term "rape" is overused by people particularly in online gaming (and I cringe when I hear it), I don't think that people become so desensitised to it that they suddenly don't recognise that a rape victim has been through an incredibly traumatic period. The context in which a term is used is clearly important. The malicious interpersonal act termed 'rape' has a different context than rape of the land, or the overuse of the term in gaming (where the malicious aspect is absent). Clearly the use hasn't diminished its use in other contexts. I doubt it will do so, particularly given how serious the crime of rape is.

    I mean literally you can't 'rape' a land, but the term has been applied to describe particularly exploitative and destructive activity, usually in the name of empire building or simple violence. But clearly it hasn't diminished the term when it applies to violence against the person. I know there's a big difference between rape of the land and "lol I'll rape you at Starcraft" but I'm pointing out that the context is important.

    When people use the term they clearly don't intend to cause offence or somehow diminish the impact of the crime. That's not to say it isn't overused (like 'douchebag', which I FRIGGIN' HATE are you listening USA/AUS FIND A NEW INSULT) but I don't think it really has the effect that you're describing. Societal norms direct how words operate and it's easy for a word to carry little weight in one context and heavy weight in another. As others have said, the term "murder" used to describe a crime is very serious, but is also used casually. People can differentiate between the two without difficulty, because of the context in which the word is used.

    Again it's overused and I'm not fond of the term at all, but I don't think we're heading for a time period when everyone thinks that rape isn't a big deal just because it forms part of trash-talking online. I think a more interesting issue is why prison rape is a big joke when it's literally the crime of rape no different from any other rape case.

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