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  1. #181
    Network Hub LaunchJC's Avatar
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    Think the game kinda spoke for itself, we were pretty atrocious but QFs is all we were worth.

    The only thing that frustrates me is a lot of people saying now that we're incapable of keeping possession, which is ridiculous. This team and these tactics render us incapable, but there's nothing to suggest we couldn't play a much better possession game if the system supported it and the right players were chosen.

    A lot of the team play for clubs which are a million times better than England on the ball.

  2. #182
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    Well, most of those clubs have skillful foreigners to play football while the English players provide the thuggery and defending.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  3. #183
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDog View Post
    But dare I say it, with some tweaks in attack and Jack Wilshere in there to hold onto possession we could build on what is now a solid defence and be a decent counter-attacking side? Maybe?
    I don't see why not really. On the few occasions England did break they looked pretty dangerous.

  4. #184
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    The way I see it there are some positives and some negatives.

    Positives:

    - Some decent younger players have tournament experience and didn't choke. Welbeck, Ox, Walcott, Hart all had their moments and looked like they could cope with the pressure.

    - Team spirit. No arguments, no ego, no John Terry trying to pick the squad in a press conference. They all put in a shift for each other were and were totally committed. Hopefully the younger players will carry this ethos into future tournaments.

    Negatives:

    - We have a serious lack of quality technical players who are comfortable receiving the ball in a tight spot. Wilshere is the kind of player we need to be producing and bringing into the squad on a regular basis if we want to have a chance at becoming a top team. You can't expect to win a tournament when every team you play is having twice as much possession as you.

    - Hodgson. There's no doubt that Hodgson has done a good job with the time and resources he had available. But I'm seriously concerned that this is not the man to lead the development of the national team forward. Playing 442 against the Italian's was virtual suicide. The wide players were totally ineffective and Rooney and Welbeck were largely isolated. Poor Parker and Gerrard were getting an absolute lesson from Pirlo, Montolivo and De Rossi. When the opposition have a technically strong midfield the last thing you need is to be outnumbered in the middle. Hodgson didn't change this when we couldn't even get out of our half in the second half.

    Every team that has got to the Semi's like to play 3 in the middle. Pretty much every good international team does. 442 is far too rigid and inflexible at this level. But Hodgson loves his 442. Instead of developing us into a genuinely competent side playing good football I fear that we'll just become the Greece+ of international football.
    Last edited by duff; 25-06-2012 at 04:41 PM.

  5. #185
    Lesser Hivemind Node Timofee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duff View Post
    The way I see it there are some positives and some negatives. ...snip...
    Agreed. Being as I have the ignominy of supporting Leeds I don't follow the premiership as closely these days (years) but aren't Man U/C/Arsenal/Chelski/Liverpool all playing 4-5-1 these days anyway, surely it makes sense to play a similar formation as the vast majority of the squad plays for one of those teams.

    Personally I was happier to lose on penalties to Italy than to get a complete thrashing by the Germans, which is probably what would have happened if we'd gone through. Of all the teams left I'm happy with anyone other than Italy winning it as they all play nice attacking football.

    Also... forgot in the excitement of football... the Grand Prix! It was crazy. Bloody well played to Alonso, kinda miffed about Maldonado but pleased to see Hamilton seemingly showing some maturity. At the same time though, if I were him, I'd have made sure to leave room given it was 1 lap before the end - but hell that's probably why he's a world class F1 driver and I'm not.

  6. #186
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Maldonado is a prick and I'd go so far as to say it's likely he deliberately drove into Hamilton. Didn't he do the same at the end of qualifying last season? I feel sorry for Hamilton because the amount of bad pitstops he's had is about as much as all the other drivers put together. McClaren need to get their shit together.

  7. #187
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ian's Avatar
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    The reason we can't play posession football isn't because the players aren't capable, as such. As has been said, they do it at club level.

    The problem is that for whatever reason for England the players (regardless of opposition, our manager, our tactics, etc.) frequently seem incapable of passing a ball 10 yards. Which is extra frustrating because there were a few moments in this tournament where we actually played keep-ball for stretches of five, ten minutes. Only to quickly give up and go back to sitting as deep as possible.
    A brave heart and a courteous tongue. They shall carry thee far through the jungle, manling.

  8. #188
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    I don't think Roy had much choice but to play 4-4-2 with the players we had available. All the English CM's were basically injured (Barry, Wilshere), or are retired from International Football (Scholes, Carrick). Shame, cos I think Scholes is probably the closest we have to a Pirlo type player (in terms of his range of passing, if not technical ability) and Carrick is good as retaining possession.

    Jordan Henderson (with the best will in the world, I love to see a lad from my local area playing in the England team) ain't up to scratch and the only other midfield cover were defenders (Jagielka, Jones).
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  9. #189
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    I don't think Roy had much choice but to play 4-4-2 with the players we had available. All the English CM's were basically injured (Barry, Wilshere), or are retired from International Football (Scholes, Carrick). Shame, cos I think Scholes is probably the closest we have to a Pirlo type player (in terms of his range of passing, if not technical ability) and Carrick is good as retaining possession.

    Jordan Henderson (with the best will in the world, I love to see a lad from my local area playing in the England team) ain't up to scratch and the only other midfield cover were defenders (Jagielka, Jones).
    Yeh Hodgson did have his options cut down. Still I'd like to have seen Milner and Parker in the middle so Gerrard could get more advanced. Then you can have an out ball with Theo. As it was we were just totally swamped and when we did get the ball we had nowhere to go.

  10. #190
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Really want Portugal to go out, so I can see Cristiano Ronaldo cry in HD this evening.
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  11. #191
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus duff's Avatar
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    I won't see it in HD sadly but I will have some salt water at hand so I can pretend to taste them.

  12. #192
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    No, no, no guys you aren't thinking big enough. Portugal knock out Spain, thus proving they've taken this possession thing a step too far and are in fact more boring to watch than McLeish's Villa team.

    Then Germany/Italy can beat Portugal in the final, thus producing even more blubbering from Ronaldo.

    On a side note I would actually like to see Pirlo play the next game in a pair of slippers.

  13. #193
    Lesser Hivemind Node Timofee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DiamondDog View Post
    On a side note I would actually like to see Pirlo play the next game in a pair of slippers.
    I like that image. Perhaps when Italy are defending he could retire to a rocking chair with a blanket over his knees

  14. #194
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    A friend suggested he could happily float around the pitch with a cup of hot chocolate in one hand.

  15. #195
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ian's Avatar
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    Fucking Spain.

    If they should win this it's a shame that in future I'll have to think back on how the greatest ever national team won two of it's three consecutive trophies putting out a cumulative "good, entertaining performances" tally of about a game and a half for two of those tournaments.

    Since Euro 2008 they've been so unutterably dreary. So I probably want Germany to win tonight as I fancy them to be a bit more ruthless when Spain are dicking about.
    A brave heart and a courteous tongue. They shall carry thee far through the jungle, manling.

  16. #196
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jockie's Avatar
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    Same here really, I find the way Spain play to be inestimably dull, at least when Barca do the tiki-taka thing, they're capable of scoring a hatful of goals.

    Tradition might dictate that I'm supposed to hate ze Germans, but they've been one of the most entertaining teams to watch since the 2006 World Cup.
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  17. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    So I probably want Germany to win tonight as I fancy them to be a bit more ruthless when Spain are dicking about.
    Pretty much this.

    You could see it coming after the first 20 minutes last night. Portugal got at Spain and showed they could be put off their rhythm, but never looked like they'd score. I could see the same thing happening with Italy, unless Prandelli starts Di Natale. What's needed is the German's ruthlessness. They don't fuck about when it comes to putting a game out of sight. Plus they've easily played the best football, so that's a good reason for them to win!

    Of course, that dumb fucking René look-a-like fool Del Bosque might wake up and actually play Pedro and Navas from the start, or bench Alonso (oh no, what will Marca say if the national team has an all Barca midfield!), or give up the frankly awful experiment where they pretend Fabregas is Messi, and just fucking play Torres!

    God this Spanish team wind me up.

  18. #198
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ian's Avatar
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    Or even if they're accepting that he's been a bit shit, stick Llorente in. I've no idea why he didn't start last night, it seems to me he'd be an excellent focal point for this Spain attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jockie View Post
    Same here really, I find the way Spain play to be inestimably dull, at least when Barca do the tiki-taka thing, they're capable of scoring a hatful of goals.
    And even then the other 85 minutes of the match are usually pretty turgid.

    The most exciting Spain have been this tournament was when Italy took the lead and they hit back at them with that swift, ruthless bit of football.

    ....and then they went back to arsing around.
    A brave heart and a courteous tongue. They shall carry thee far through the jungle, manling.

  19. #199
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    On a non football related note.

    WIMBLEDON!

  20. #200
    Lesser Hivemind Node Feldspar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
    On a non football related note.

    WIMBLEDON!
    Unfortunately, I do believe you are referring to people playing bat and ball and not the Wombles. Oh well.

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