"Mature" is usually just one of those terms that you use to praise some things while bashing others that appears to give more weight to your argument than "I kinda liked that and kinda didn't like the other".
"Mature" is usually just one of those terms that you use to praise some things while bashing others that appears to give more weight to your argument than "I kinda liked that and kinda didn't like the other".
Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.
Originally Posted by Nalano
I'll have to take some time to consider these thoughtful arguments.
The two basic Geralt archetypes are Pragmatic Geralt and Idealistic Geralt, and arguably, Idealistic Geralt may have increased the instability of the region and paved the way for more and bloodier wars in the future.
But hey, he's just one man.
I don't exactly know. I am asking people who say that TW is not really mature, what is an rpg they think is a mature.
Keeping away from cliches
Already mentioned morality greyness
Psychological violence
Complexity of the world, sides
few things i guess which make games mature.
I also don't see how meaning of philosophy changes if it is interrupted by tits. @Jack. you didn't make argument either on how it does that so unaco and nalano's answers are the same as yours (you say yes, they say no)
it might act like distraction. So if a wet t-shirt contest is very obnoxious you might not hear a message of the philosophy... yet it does not change it. it just hides it.
Last edited by Lukasz; 03-05-2012 at 09:29 AM.
Say I'm speaking to a woman, about science say, and she's wearing a dowdy ankle length skirt, heavy knitted sweater, her hair is a little unkempt, wearing no make up etc. Now imagine I have the same conversation, on the same subject, with the same woman, but she's wearing a short (tiny) skirt, heels, a very short (tiny) top, her hair is done up and the make up is on, she's wearing perfume etc.
Now, are the meanings of the two conversations different?
Mature, or adult, possibly aren't the best words for it... they always come across as being about the flesh and the swears. Perhaps 'grown-up' would be better.
ARPS unofficial motto - And then we leave. No heroic stands.
In that case, Fallout: New Vegas comes to mind, as do 1 and 2 to a lesser degree. The Neverwinter Nights 2 expansion Mask of the Betrayer (but not the original campaign) might be a suitable candidate too. And maybe KotoR 2.
The meaning of a conversation differs based on context, yes. Imagine you're having that conversation with a corpse in a war zone. The words may be the same, but the context has totally changed the meaning.
Take Starship Troopers: It starts with a scene of horrific violence, then cuts straight to american high-school drama. The meaning of that high-school drama would be totally altered without the first scene.
Here's Alfred Hitchcock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...eJZ02QZw#t=68s
There's some RPGs coming out of France - though I don't know of any international 'hits' like discussed in this thread.
There's Arkane Studios (Arx Fatalis, Dark Messiah of Might and Magic), Quantic Dream's games aren't necessarily RPGs but do focus heavily on story (Fahrenheit, Heavy Rain). Nadeo is coming out with QuestMania in the future, which is thought to be based on their TrackMania and soon to be released ShootMania concepts centered around an accessible Track Editor, in the case of TrackMania. I also stumbled upon Aldorlea Games, who release new RPGs every now and then. They seem to be rather low-budget, though. Infogrames, Microïds and Ubisoft probably have some RPGs in their line-up as well.
Last edited by Tritagonist; 03-05-2012 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Spelling.
"And in that day you will cry out because of your king, whom you have chosen for yourselves." ~ 1 Samuel 8:18
No. It doesn't. What the other person is wearing does not alter the fundamentals of mathematics. If we were discussing the shortcomings of the peristimulus rate histogram, the effects of localisation errors do not magically disappear because they happen to be wearing flowers in their hair. If it were the case, would we not have found just the right outfit to send a man to terraform Mars?
Just because there is a wet t-shirt contest going on, the platypi of the Subject/Object Metaphysics do not vanish. The philosophy stays the same.
ARPS unofficial motto - And then we leave. No heroic stands.
Sure. But we're talking about the overall impression that the scene creates in the mind of the viewer. "2+2=4" is true whether I say it as I teach a maths class, or as I rip the still-beating heart out of an infant. The meaning of those two scenes is different, despite the fact that the statement remains true.
Geralt can say mature things, but the meaning of his words changes depending on his actions and the context his words appear in.
Haven't played the game, but I understand the "gray," morally ambiguous setting of the Witcher as described.
Trying to understand JackShandy. The setting may provoke some thought, but being coupled in with sex collector cards or whatever kinda cheapens those parts, or at least makes it seem like the game is meant more for titillation than anything else. A Game of Thrones also has a morally ambiguous setting, but I wouldn't call it philosophical or particularly meaningful. Unless there is some congruent philosophical thread that can be taken from the juxtaposition of the gray morality and sex collector cards? Some overlying message that ties the two together? One seems world-directed and the other player-directed. Here's some fan service yo.
In what sense is PST mature? The dialogues and rythmic and cheek-in-tonge but it is as mature as any other game. Here be you in this fantastic world, everyone calls you cutter, nobody swears, gitzerais are dwarves and there are whores in the street.
So I wasn't the only one who noticed that.
See, I don't have a problem with what he writes, he does make some good points. Personally, though, I think the way he makes his points really de-values them. Wow, so he knows stuff about Skinner and Kübler-Ross and some guy he knows couldn't play it on a six year old Dell. Those are all not points worth making like that (he could elaborate on them, though).
I must say I vastly prefer RPS' (for instance) reviews. I may not always have the same opinion, but at least the points are nearly always very well-put and comprehensible.
PST is mature because:
Complex plot which does not involve you going on saving the world
Complex characters while in fantastical world are believable. Everyone has more than few sides to them and not just a single role
Deep meaningful conversation with various npcs
Philosophical theme on existence, sacrifice, loyalty and life
Brutality of human manipulation
It is way more mature than any other rpg i played. Fallout 1 is not very far but still cannot be compared to PST
Well... perhaps reviewers should only be as good as the median actual world player. I would probably go out of my way to read cogent reviews from a cack-handed reviewer - it would give me some perspective on whether I'll be able to get past the title screen or not.
Witcher 2 didn't live up to the pre-release hype, thats for sure.
The Witcher 2 will be better.
Sure it does. If she's dressed suggestively, now the conversation might be charged with innuendo. The content of the words stay the same, but I don't think "content of words" = "meaning of conversation". (Obligatory.)
Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
do things really live up to their hype?
It changes the meaning of the conversation, perhaps. But not the meaning of the philosophy (or whatever) being discussed.
It did, and exceeded the hype, that's for sure.
ARPS unofficial motto - And then we leave. No heroic stands.
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