Tom Bisell' public inmolation: "Never have I been more content to be a console gamer"

[Nalano]

Convenience. Exclusives. Less hassle. No need to update hardware. Painfree software updates. Little to no chance of incompatibilities and problems.

So, basically, console kids are monkeys? Thanks for agreeing with me.

Also, who doesn't own a PC?

Why? Because of the games, dummy. Isn't that the point to begin with?

You mean I get to choose from the limited selection a handful of publishers and manufacturers have developed a cabal to control? Wow, sign me up!

*gag*

[Rii]

Why? Because of the games, dummy. Isn't that the point to begin with?

Headshot.

The games industry is not to blame (specifically) for the connotations that the word has picked up. And sure, it would be nice if everyone used the words the "right" way and we could use mature without the connotations... but even a brief scan of this thread shows that Mature has a similar connotation to it as Adult (boobies and swears).

The games industry is partly to blame, yes. As for 'convenience', I'll take accuracy and integrity over it.

Tell us about your illustrious career as a games Journalist Rii?

The fact that he gets paid to write about games is meant to suggest what, exactly? He owes the game and the reader nothing but accuracy, honesty and disclosure. He is perfectly entitled to write about his experiences with the game, irrespective of their duration. Moreover, for your average human being who has limited free time and is disinclined to spend that time paying for the privilege of not having fun, a write-up covering 'only' the first six hours of a game (opportunity cost AUD $93 at current minimum wage) is perfectly useful.

But of course one should always acknowledge the limits of one's experience with the game. Maybe the path in the dialogue tree not taken boots up Super Mario Bros. 3, who knows?

[Unaco]

So, basically, console kids are monkeys? Thanks for agreeing with me.

No. Not at all. They, maybe, just prefer to be more casual, more relaxed, less involved with their videogaming pastime. In recent years, yes, the extraneous activities around PC gaming (the activities not playing games, but required/beneficial for playing video games) has reduced... but it isn't non existent. There are those who prefer to skip that entirely.

Also, who doesn't own a PC?

The people who don't own PCs, staggeringly enough. They're probably the majority.

As for 'convenience', I'll take accuracy and integrity over it.

But what accuracy can there be when there is misunderstanding and ambiguity about the word? Seems like using a new/different word, to replace the specific meaning of the old word, whose meaning has changed, would be more accurate.

[Rii]

But what accuracy can there be when there is misunderstanding and ambiguity about the word? Seems like using a new/different word, to replace the specific meaning of the old word, whose meaning has changed, would be more accurate.

Context disambiguates. Those for whom it doesn't aren't worth bothering with.

Language evolves, but 'mature' is a perfectly good word as is and there are no good alternatives within reach, whereas alternatives for 'delighting in violence, swears, and tits for their own sake' aren't at all difficult to find, e.g. 'adolescent', 'juvenile'. And if I were willing to yield the floor to anyone, it certainly wouldn't be to that "rated M for mature" dipshit.

[Unaco]

Context disambiguates. Those for whom it doesn't aren't worth bothering with.

But with such elitism, and rigidity how does the evolution of language occur? And is elitism something we want in a language?

[Rii]

But with such elitism, and rigidity how does the evolution of language occur?

Umm, it occurs via one interpretation prevailing over the other. Or, just as likely, the new meanings are retained with the old and distinguished by context. That language evolves is a statement of fact, not an endorsement of any particular instance.

And is elitism something we want in a language?

Refusing to abandon a word because there is no compelling reason to do so is not 'elitism'.

[Unaco]

Refusing to abandon a word because there is no compelling reason to do so is not 'elitism'.

And the altered/evolved connotations attached to the word is not a compelling reason? You yourself said...

Context disambiguates. Those for whom it doesn't aren't worth bothering with.

Which sounds an awful lot like elitism. Your reason for not "abandoning" a word, or allowing another word in place of that word, is that those who do suffer from the confusion aren't worth bothering with.

[NathanH]

Elitism is a good thing. Let's not try to get rid of it.

[Rii]

And the altered/evolved connotations attached to the word is not a compelling reason?

Attached by whom? Language is a tool of communication. I have never had any difficulty (wrt 'mature') either in communicating my meaning to others, or interpreting the words of others.

Which sounds an awful lot like elitism. Your reason for not "abandoning" a word, or allowing another word in place of that word, is that those who do suffer from the confusion aren't worth bothering with.

Well you could call that elitism, or you could call it pragmatism. If you are unable to grasp the sense in which I am using the word 'mature' from the context of its utterrance then it is unlikely that your comprehension would be of value to me in any case.

[kyrieee]

I don't agree with most of his points, but to be honest I don't like any of the Wither games. I just don't find any of it particularly engaging, and I also can't pick out any memorable dialogue. I don't see why everyone thinks it's so incredibly mature; granted, it doesn't conform to the high fantasy middle-ages idea, but the fact that it includes prostitutes and lines like 'your mother sucks dwarf cock' doesn't really strike me as super mature.

I don't see anyone claiming that either.
The game and the game world have things that clearly aren't appropriate for kids. There's rape, incest, executions, torture and cold blooded murder. Including that stuff doesn't automatically make the game mature, but the game handles it in a mature way. It's not fetishized, it's matter of fact and is there to explore the characters to the player.

I also think that the game treats the player as an adult in the way it presents information. To get the most out of the story you need to really pay attention and try to piece some things together for yourself. Some people are bound to just get confused, but I really appreciate it.

[Hillbert]

So, basically, console kids are monkeys? Thanks for agreeing with me.

I don't have the same time to play games now as I did 7/8 years ago. Not faffing about with the settings, downloading demos to see if it'll run properly etc. is a all a bit of a bonus. Making something more convenient does not make it more stupid. There's no intellectual worth in manually applying patches.

Also, who doesn't own a PC?

I don't own a PC which is capable of playing any newish game. It's a laptop with integrated graphics as I can't justify (and I don't have the space for) a new desktop. It'll happily play older games and a lot of new indie games but something like Skyrim? nope.

You mean I get to choose from the limited selection a handful of publishers and manufacturers have developed a cabal to control? Wow, sign me up!

*gag*

Depending on your gaming preferences there may be enough exclusive games in a convenient format on a machine which can be used for other purposes (Netflix, iPlayer, Blu-Ray for example), designed to nestle alongside the tv.

[archonsod]

Reading through the Mass Effect article he posted in Grantland, I think you're unfairly portraying him as dumb.

Given it took him six minutes to figure out how to create a potion I think he's doing a good job himself. I mean the game even gives you a step-by-step tutorial through the process complete with big indicators of "put this there, hit this button" stylings. And then he seems to utterly fail to notice the meditation time setting is a slider with dusk, midnight, morning et al highlighted rather than being fixed options.

but the game handles it in a mature way.

Only if you're utilising the word mature in the same way porn producers do, rather than indicative of a more emotionally and intellectually advanced treatment of the subject. Even then it only really applies if you're comparing it to certain more sanitised, family friendly stuff like Fable and the like; but you're still pretty much comparing Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure with Wayne's World.

[kyrieee]

Well I didn't mention sex. I don't think the sex in TW2 adds much and animated sex is just awkward.

[archonsod]

It's not the sex. Half the time the dialogue feels like it was written by a two year old that's just learned certain words make the adults cross, which rather detracts from everything else. The murder, torture et al could have been used to good effect, but instead it's thrown around so often it simply loses any impact whatsoever. It's why the whole grey morality thing is laughable, the Witcher gives you people who sometimes kill people, and people who always kill people. It's about as sophisticated in that regard as the average pantomime.

[Nalano]

No. Not at all. They, maybe, just prefer to be more casual, more relaxed, less involved with their videogaming pastime. In recent years, yes, the extraneous activities around PC gaming (the activities not playing games, but required/beneficial for playing video games) has reduced... but it isn't non existent. There are those who prefer to skip that entirely.

You seem to think that casual PC gaming doesn't exist. Where the fuck have you been this past decade?

The people who don't own PCs, staggeringly enough. They're probably the majority.

If you count sub-Saharan Africa, sure, but they don't play video games.

There's no intellectual worth in manually applying patches.

I don't apply manual patches and I'm a PC gamer. I honestly can't tell you the last time I had to. What now, smart guy?

Depending on your gaming preferences there may be enough exclusive games in a convenient format on a machine which can be used for other purposes (Netflix, iPlayer, Blu-Ray for example), designed to nestle alongside the tv.

Which a PC can do, cheaper, better, and with fewer blocks. The only benefit consoles have in their catalog are discretionary, chosen by the companies in an explicit attempt to promote their consoles. Why the fuck would I want to support that?

[Lukasz]

you people who sometimes kill people, and people who always kill people. It's about as sophisticated in that regard as the average pantomime.

hows that any different to real world in 12-17 century?

[Sketch]

Calling people console kiddies and having an outlook which propagates those sorts of statements is just...shit. There are far lesser evils in the world of gaming than consoles and yet anyone who plays one seems to get the stick for it, really arguing that console players are monkeys or whatever is just poisonous. 130 odd quid for a console that can play pretty much any game with decent visuals isn't such a bad thing, if you want more then you pay more and that's fine, there doesn't have to be a constant war of words attacking someone's hobby which they enjoy

[soldant]

You seem to think that casual PC gaming doesn't exist. Where the fuck have you been this past decade?

It does, but it's also leaking onto platforms like the iPad leading to all this "post PC world" bullshit. Also it clearly isn't the same as the kind of gaming that most RPS forumers are talking about. I doubt a Farmville devout is going to enter into the conversation, because it's entirely irrelevant to what we're talking about.

Which a PC can do, cheaper, better, and with fewer blocks. The only benefit consoles have in their catalog are discretionary, chosen by the companies in an explicit attempt to promote their consoles. Why the fuck would I want to support that?

Why aren't we all using HTPCs? Why are separate Bluray and DVD players popular? Maybe because although the PC is generally more utilitarian, it isn't perceived as easy to use as a device designed for it. The interfaces built into consoles for particular things makes them appear more utilitarian without the added hassle of having a PC which requires more maintenance to effectively maintain. Not to mention that the general architecture of a PC means that in attaining that utility it has operating overheads requiring generally more powerful hardware which in turn puts out more heat and cooling noise. That said the 360 makes a racket too...

Also I'm not 100% sure about the 'cheaper' argument. Again the PC comes with its own performance overheads thanks to the underlying OS and other background services, which is why consoles can end up lasting for friggin' ages (direct to metal programming). Getting a decent PC which would also act as a quiet HTPC would require significant compromises or expense, such that you'd either end up with something that plays games extremely well and sounds noisy, or doesn't play games to high console standards and doesn't sound like a jet engine.

[Bankrotas]

What the f... is the point of this stupid discussion about view on gaming? All this sounds like "potatoes are better than tomatoes" kind of crap discussed here...

[ado]

You mean I get to choose from the limited selection a handful of publishers and manufacturers have developed a cabal to control? Wow, sign me up!

*gag*

You are aware that you are confirming his statement that PC gamers are just a bunch of elitist douchebags right?

Besides games like RDR, the Souls games, MGS, ICO/SotC, Uncharted, God of War etc. are fucking amazing games that should not be missed. And it is sad to see that your love for games is not as strong as your fanboy prejudices.