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  1. #1
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    SEV2 - You can kill Hitler, but no Nazi insignia

    Steam user:


    "Swastikas

    Firstly i am not trying too offend or so. Just a very serious question. I wonder why the developers choose too left these things out. As i know older ww2 shooters (like cod) always had these in. Just for immersion and to be more authentic. Because the german flags in the game are horrendous now. It would be just way cooler having them in well that is what i think. Again i am not trying too be offensive or start a flame i was only wondering.

    In regards
    VinAr"


    Sniper Elite V2 developer:

    "It comes down to the fact that in some countries insignia is banned and rather than have to go in and remove every single one for that version it's easier to have none."

    Via - http://forums.steampowered.com/forum....php?t=2683366



    Really? Hitler DLC but no Nazi insignia?


  2. #2
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Oh dear, that video is both awesome and terrifying at the same time. Now if you'll excuse, I need to cuddle up because my balls hurt.

    P.S.: Putting this game on my wishlist.

  3. #3
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    I think the more important question is why does he have two testicles?

  4. #4
    Network Hub icemann's Avatar
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    Odd that older games did it better. Wolfenstein 3D has the nazi insignias, troops and better gore :).

    Compare this video to the one above:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXQrCwGCp-I

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Odd that older games did it better. Wolfenstein 3D has the nazi insignias, troops and better gore :).

    Compare this video to the one above:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXQrCwGCp-I
    Wolfenstein 3D also was put on the "index" in Germany because of the use of nazi symbols (well, that and for being a FPS). From a development standpoint, it makes sense to not use symbols like the swastika and SS runes if you need to create completely new assets for an important market. As for why something like a Hitler DLC is ok but swastikas are not... well, laws aren't always smart, to say the least. For example, there was a case a in Germany few years ago in which someone was fined for selling anti-nazi stickers with crossed out swastikas, because there was a swastika on them (duh). The case was later repealed after some public outrage, but it shows how the words of the law and its spirit aren't neccessarily the same.

    Also, this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    I think the more important question is why does he have two testicles?
    Can't we have at least some historical accuracy in our shooting-Hitler-in-the-balls-simulators?!
    Last edited by Subatomic; 05-05-2012 at 06:38 AM.

  6. #6
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    Oh dear, that video is both awesome and terrifying at the same time. Now if you'll excuse, I need to cuddle up because my balls hurt.

    P.S.: Putting this game on my wishlist.
    Yeah, that extra apostrophe in the video was fucking painful.

    But this smacks of laziness. AFAIK, the only country that *really* bans Nazi imagery is Germany and they do so in a very, very shockingly strict manner. It can't be that hard to replace some textures here and there just to solve the 'issue'.


  7. #7
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    It can't be that hard to replace some textures here and there just to solve the 'issue'.
    Well yeah, but... effort... [simpering face]

    But in all seriousness I'm sure it'd be easy to simply patch out Nazi imagery in the final German release. At least it'd look less half-arsed than "Oh well the Germans wouldn't like it, so we just didn't do it. At all."

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    Yeah, that extra apostrophe in the video was fucking painful.

    But this smacks of laziness. AFAIK, the only country that *really* bans Nazi imagery is Germany and they do so in a very, very shockingly strict manner.
    We are also kind of shizophrenic about it. Historical documentaries with swastikas in them? No problem. Movies set during the Third Reich with swastikas all over the place (including things like Indina Jones or Inglourious Basterds)? No problem. Video games? Ban 'em!
    At the root of the problem is once again the question wether or not video games are art. Movies are protected by the 5th article of the German constitution (freedom of the arts), so they have much more leeway in their display of Nazi themes and symbols, but games aren't fully there yet. As far as I know, no video game developer/publisher has ever invested the time and money needed to examine this before a court (by the time there was a ruling, the game would probably be severly outdated).
    Last edited by Subatomic; 05-05-2012 at 07:05 AM.

  9. #9
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    I believe it's also happened with comic books - there was one not too long ago where they changed the art for the German market. I know it happened with a B.P.R.D. miniseries, but there was a more controversial one that I've forgotten the name of.


  10. #10
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    I believe it's also happened with comic books - there was one not too long ago where they changed the art for the German market. I know it happened with a B.P.R.D. miniseries, but there was a more controversial one that I've forgotten the name of.
    On the other hand there are comics like Maus that were not censored, so it's not a general regularisation.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    On the other hand there are comics like Maus that were not censored, so it's not a general regularisation.
    It has a lot to do with context. "Maus" is a graphic novel about survival of the holocaust, so it sure as hell won't be censored/banned (both of those terms aren't entirely accurate to describe what happens to media on the index anyway). Some super hero comic in which the Third Reich and the holocaust are little more than the backdrop and excuse for convenient villains is another matter.

  12. #12
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by squirrelfanatic View Post
    On the other hand there are comics like Maus that were not censored, so it's not a general regularisation.
    But Maus can arguably be considered a historical piece, as I believe it's a sort of biography. Could be wrong, of course.


  13. #13
    Moderator Anthile's Avatar
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    You know who else banned symbols of people they didn't like? The oh-


    To be fair, it's mostly a legal matter. Video games still aren't quite acknowledged as art so putting a swastika in a game is not different than, say, me swearing one on the nearest house. It will take some time but eventually, yes, even we Germans will be able to marvel at digital swastikas while assassinating Hitler.
    Last edited by Anthile; 05-05-2012 at 08:26 AM.
    to wound the autumnal city.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anthile View Post
    You know who else banned symbols of people they didn't like? The oh-
    .
    It's a bit ironic, isn't it? But then, most countries have laws against "hate speech", it hust happens that these laws are a bit more strict in Germany and specifically include several nazi related topics (like holocaust denial and displaying of nazi symbols). Considering this is the country that started WW2 and exterminated ~6 million jews (and that doesn't even include sinti and roma, homosexuals, the disabled and other "unwanted"), I think it's understandable in historical context.

  15. #15
    Lesser Hivemind Node ado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Althea View Post
    But Maus can arguably be considered a historical piece, as I believe it's a sort of biography. Could be wrong, of course.
    It's both actually, a biography and a historical piece about the holocauts. Think "Schindler's List", only that the Jews are drawn as mice and the Nazis as cats.

    I don't think it matter's really if you see the swastikas or not. I mean the game is not striving for some realism or making a poignant comment on ww2. It's a sniping game where you get to see x-rays of people's testicles being shot.
    steam

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  16. #16
    Lesser Hivemind Node Feldspar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ado View Post
    I don't think it matter's really if you see the swastikas or not. I mean the game is not striving for some realism or making a poignant comment on ww2. It's a sniping game where you get to see x-rays of people's testicles being shot.
    Surely if you keep x-raying someone's ballsack they're going to end up sterile anyway, so why do you need to shoot them there?

  17. #17
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    But in all seriousness I'm sure it'd be easy to simply patch out Nazi imagery in the final German release. At least it'd look less half-arsed than "Oh well the Germans wouldn't like it, so we just didn't do it. At all."
    Yeah, don't they know that American sensibilities are the only sensibilities one is allowed to design a game around?
    Last edited by Rii; 05-05-2012 at 10:37 AM.

  18. #18
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Lambchops's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woundedbum View Post
    I think the more important question is why does he have two testicles?
    Find out in the upcoming "Hitler Storms the Albert Hall" prologue DLC.

  19. #19
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    Yeah, don't they know that American sensibilities are the only sensibilities one is allowed to design a game around?
    I would have thought that, being Australian, you'd remember that designing a "one size fits all" approach isn't always the best thing to do. Remember when L4D2 got released here and we ended up getting the German censored version, which meant that the Zombie Riot Cop was cut despite the OFLC's objection being the "unrelenting violence?"

    Blah blah blah Ameri-centric accusations etc, but still it's a game featuring Hitler, a game where you freakin' kill Hitler. Completely ignoring the entire Nazi iconography is like plonking down a Christian Church without a cross or a picture of Jesus Christ.

  20. #20
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tritagonist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rii View Post
    Yeah, don't they know that American sensibilities are the only sensibilities one is allowed to design a game around?
    It's not likely that a significant number of people is going to confuse the setting of this game for the Second Punic War though, is it? The game has World War II, Germany etc. all over it. A few flags and insignia's here and there isn't going to do much to change that.

    It doesn't seem like this strange situation is going to change any time soon, though. Just a few years ago the Germans wanted to outlaw all depictions of Nazi symbols across the European Union - and in many other European countries "denying the Holocaust" is still illegal.
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