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  1. #81
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Because it's deception. I stay away from developers/publishers that engage in deceptive actions.



    I'll believe it when I see it.

    One of things that bothers me the most about Warlock is that city spam is officially acknowledged strategy. Even screenshots on their websites feature minimap covered in a single color. It's one huge city, cyberpunk.
    I don't see how it's a deception. Nobody has declared that there wouldn't be any DLC, so no deceit there; and the game itself is a very full release-it dosen't need this DLC to work or be good value at it's already very competitive price. It's added stuff for those who want more. Not everyone does want more. If you don't, don't buy it. But there's nothing underhand here.

  2. #82
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    More accurately, we don't know whether it's deception or not, because we don't know what they said in their meetings when the strategy was decided. It depends how much you trust the people involved. I tend not to trust them very much (not singling out this bunch, just the industry in general).
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  3. #83
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sonson View Post
    I don't see how it's a deception. Nobody has declared that there wouldn't be any DLC, so no deceit there; and the game itself is a very full release-it dosen't need this DLC to work or be good value at it's already very competitive price. It's added stuff for those who want more. Not everyone does want more. If you don't, don't buy it. But there's nothing underhand here.
    Cheap base game, DLC, engine supposedly not modding friendly. What a convenient coincidence. And at least dragon turtles have been unlocked by pirates, I've seen screenshots with them before DLC was announced.

    The game doesn't crash, but is quite limited. A handful of high end or heavily buffed units beats all. One city challenge is not a challenge. AI sticks to low tiers and doesn't buff enough, it builds defensive structures which put it behind economically.

  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Yeah this game lets you use strategies like specialized cities and stacking buffs (for just two examples) but if you use any of these things it becomes extremely easy on any difficulty setting.

    I'm enjoying the game, but now that I've seen most of the different units and "resources" that are on the map it is losing its appeal. I don't even use tactics in war anymore, just send a bunch of buffed units to the area I want to fight at and steam roll anything in the way.

  5. #85
    Lesser Hivemind Node frightlever's Avatar
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    Considering the game came with "free" DLC if you pre-ordered I find it hard to think there was any deception going on. I don't mind DLC in games. Most of the time I ignore it, a lot of the time I wait until complete editions are out (still waiting Saints Row 3...), and sometimes when the base game is exactly the kind of game I enjoy playing and is half the price of most regular games, I just buy it.

    If the business model seems unfair then walk away from it. You can allow DLC to make you angry or upset, but it reveals a weakness in yourself, not in the business model.

  6. #86
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus sonson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    More accurately, we don't know whether it's deception or not, because we don't know what they said in their meetings when the strategy was decided. It depends how much you trust the people involved. I tend not to trust them very much (not singling out this bunch, just the industry in general).
    I don't think you can be deceived unless personally presented with a conceit though. People could be making decisions that personally affect me and presenting them as something at a later date all of the time; but surley I'm only being misled if they led me in a certain direction in the first instance.

    If the developers decided they would create a game, sell only half of it and selll the rest as DLC at a later date, I personally think that that's not a very pleasant thing to do; but noone is being decieved becuase they have not communicated anything to the contrary. It would only be deception if they claimed that they were going to deliver a different reality from the one they had already planned surely.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Well, they could have asked 18 for the full game. We don't really know whether their strategy is "let's budget for a 15 game, then take something out and charge for it" or "let's budget for a 20 game, then take some stuff out and drop the starting price to 15".
    Why the hell would I care? I'm paying for the game they're offering for 15, not for them to shoot me the minutes of their last marketing briefing. In fact, I wouldn't pay them anything if I thought it meant I was going to have to sit through them trying to explain their marketing strategy. I have this weird allergy to marketing types in suits; I break out in violence.

    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    Because it's deception. I stay away from developers/publishers that engage in deceptive actions.
    You've got a funny meaning for the word deception then. They offered me a game for 15. I paid the 15, I got exactly the game they offered. I fail to see where anyone was deceived there (rumours of me paying via monopoly money not withstanding. I was drunk). For all I know inside the game files could be the long lost whereabouts of Lord Lucan, an ultra-rare collection of pre-WW1 facial hair porn and an entirely different game involving singing fruit. Makes sod all difference, because at no point did anyone say I would get it for my 15, and at no point did I hand over money in the expectation of getting it.
    Nor did they say there wouldn't be any DLC. Quite the opposite in fact. And I'm more than happy to pay for DLC. Modding I couldn't give a shit about, I didn't buy the game on the prospect of mods and I wouldn't be particularly interested if anyone did release any mods for it in the first place.

  8. #88
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    Where is this fabled list of "features they told me I was going to get, nothing more nothing less"?

    "Modding I couldn't give a shit about", ah you're a shill then.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abacus Finch View Post
    Where is this fabled list of "features they told me I was going to get, nothing more nothing less"?
    How about the Steam store page. Y'know, the thing that I read that made me want to pay for it in the first place? /facepalm
    "Modding I couldn't give a shit about", ah you're a shill then.
    Evidently. Just because I can't be arsed with the amateur circle jerking of most mod scenes I'm obviously shilling for InCo or something. Nothing to do with the ability to pay professionals for a professional product when I feel like playing something different.

  10. #90
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    If I ever release a commercial game, I'm going to put two folders on the disc entitled DLC1 and DLC2. I will encrypt the contents. This DLC will make the game fundamentally worse, by either making it stupidly hard or easy, or replacing all the characters faces with Goatse.

    When people get mad that there is DLC on the disc I will say I've 'changed my mind' and make the DLC 'free to anyone that wants it'. I'll make it very hard to un-install it. Preferably I'll use Steamworks so it can made literally impossible.

  11. #91
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    I'm sure some of the forum's members could then come up with a convincing explanation why your business practice is not bad for consumers ;-)
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  12. #92
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    I would have to be very clear that the Goatse faces were part of the original design, and I had them in the original game. Then I just took them out as I figured I could get rich off the DLC... I'd have people yelling at me demanding they got them back.

    Seriously, someone needs to do something like this though. Release a DLC that actively makes the game worse. Hell, we're already getting there with retailer exclusive weapons and gear that fall into your inventory at the start and are better than anything you can find in the rest of the game. To just get rid of this "I must have absolutely everything ever created for the game or it is incomplete" attitude.

  13. #93
    Obscure Node Starry Vere's Avatar
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    Off-topic, where are the saved games stored for this game (using Vista)? Even searching I can't seem to find them.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    When people get mad that there is DLC on the disc I will say I've 'changed my mind' and make the DLC 'free to anyone that wants it'. I'll make it very hard to un-install it. Preferably I'll use Steamworks so it can made literally impossible.
    "Very hard to un-install"? What's stopping users from just deleting the two DLC folders and playing the game without them?

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abacus Finch View Post
    "Very hard to un-install"? What's stopping users from just deleting the two DLC folders and playing the game without them?
    The same thing that's stopping you from just deleting a random folder from one of your games (hint: it stops working).

  16. #96
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sparkasaurusmex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starry Vere View Post
    Off-topic, where are the saved games stored for this game (using Vista)? Even searching I can't seem to find them.
    In Steam/userdata/[numbers]/[numbers]/local/default
    hopefully you don't have too many numbered folders in there...

  17. #97
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    That's a particularly crazy place to store save games.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  18. #98
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    I finally spent some quality time with this game and think its pretty good. The amount of spells and their variety make magic interesting. I like the perks acquired from the buildings and leveling up even more though. I'm finding the combat more interesting than the Civ V combat for sure, but I have to say I prefer the more involved city management of Civ. If anyone wants to read another review on this one, mine is here: http://www.oneguytoomanygames.com/20...ne-review.html

  19. #99
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus LTK's Avatar
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    Multiplayer patch incoming! ETA: Right now!. Anyone up for hurling goblins and fireballs at one another?
    Last edited by LTK; 16-07-2012 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Patch has hit

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