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  1. #21
    True but those are indies. An Activision, EA, or Ubisoft would have shoved that puppy right out into the cold as soon as they saw that the profits had peaked, cut off all but cursory support for the core product and then either moved on to attempt to reproduce the same success in exactly the same model with Minecraft 2 or peddled future updates and content as a series of overpriced DLC. Possibly both at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Nothing about this guy implies that he has any background in business, so the fact that you're ragging on him for being bad at it seems harsh.
    Well quite. The question was really not "Is Notch a good businessman" it was specifically "are Mojang getting greedy". The answer seems to me to be "no". Whether he invested his money wisely is irrelevant, I think Notch's intentions as displayed have been pretty ace.

    This new service is not exactly money for old rope. He is bringing in a new multilayer service, you're not being charged for Minecraft all over again but possibly being given the option to subscribe to a supplementary integrated service. Everything I have read says that you will be able to continue your current minecraft experience as it stands without this interfering.

  2. #22
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    It sort of mirrors what Introversion were doing when they almost failed; released Darwinia, which wasn't exceptionally good, then worked on Multiwinia (which was pointless) and then... well... they didn't do much. And they were haemorrhaging cash. Price point changes and wider exposure helped but ultimately they survive by making new games.

    With Mojang, the problem is that apart from Minecraft they've got Scrolls (which frankly looks ridiculous) and a potential space game from Notch which may or may not be any good (and isn't even close to being profitable). It's not surprising that they're looking to make additional cash in the meantime, but it does seem a bit like poor management, though not greed.

    The cash wave expansion of Mojang isn't sustainable unless they actually put out new games that are really good. Minecraft exploded in popularity because it was somewhat original or at least had excellent gameplay mechanics (versus something like Infiniminer before someone brings it up) and people were excited about what the future might bring. But they were never going to be able to keep riding that wave. It'll be interesting to see exactly what this new service entails and whether or not it'll be worth it, because quite frankly the modding community as it stands has been doing a superior job to most of what came out of Mojang.

    Unless of course Mojang start doing something weird like deliberately crippling SMP mod support, in which case get the pitchforks?

  3. #23
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    I'm fairly sure the out of context quotes in that article are about Ox10c, Notch's upcoming space game. They've stated that there will be a subscription as it's a little bit MMO-ish. I can't see how this would relate to Minecraft in any way.

  4. #24
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Also, they said all updates would be always free. They never said they would run servers themselves for ever and ever, or continue updating, eternally.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

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  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    I may be looking too much into it, but back when me & a friend had a paid minecraft server, we got it hosted by a certain fella with the following qualities:

    -Ridiculously good performance, even though we were connecting from the other side of the world.
    -Reasonable prices.
    -Was scouted by Oxeye (the studio that Mojang publishes for) during last year's Minecon.
    -Apparently became sort-of-kind-of cuddly with Notch.
    -Had a small role in the development of the Bukkit server.

    So maybe, just maybe, they're working on making this guy's server structure the "official" one? I'm just mostly talking out of my ass, but I can't help but feel that this might be what this is about.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    Minecraft has been sold on the promise every update would be free and included, so its continued support has been already paid for. Of course that can't go on forever, so if they feel they've done enough: let's just disregard those long stretches of time during which notch only made trivial and minor adjustments, and let's call it a day.

    They can do Minecraft 2 or whatever, if I like it I'll buy - it's as simple as that.

    What I wouldn't want to see is an update conceived in a way that if you want to have a decent MP experience you will be essentially forced into becoming a subscriber. It's early to say that, but I'm beginning to think that "we're not indie anymore" was not said with the best of intentions.
    It's rather pointless arguing with Nalano, he'd defend Kotick creating a special task force to go around town and steal money from hobos as a sound business move and "a company" just making money.

    OT: Sounds like he put the economics/money guy in charge of their "business strategy" and he's got big diamonds and gold bullions in his eyes.

    They're already developing Scrolls and 0x10c and they've published Cobalt. Also they're likely going to get their cut from Minecraft making its way to the Xbox360.
    I got a better idea if he wants more cash quick... how about putting his games on Steam?

  7. #27
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter View Post
    It's rather pointless arguing with Nalano, he'd defend Kotick creating a special task force to go around town and steal money from hobos as a sound business move and "a company" just making money.
    Are your eyes full of cottage cheese?

    Quote Originally Posted by SanguineAngel View Post
    Everything I have read says that you will be able to continue your current minecraft experience as it stands without this interfering.
    In that we are in agreement, but some appear to cling to the idea that a profit motive is apparently anathema to producing a good service.

    What I see here is a tiny operation funneled a whole bunch'a cash through unforeseeable success, and then going hog wild with said cash without a real plan nor any particular insight into getting struck by lightning twice. At least Mojang's unlikely to flame out like Realtime Worlds.
    Last edited by Nalano; 09-05-2012 at 06:02 PM.
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  8. #28
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    At least Mojang's unlikely to flame out like Realtime Worlds.
    I'd say it's on the cards though. I mean is anybody here really looking forward to Scrolls? So far the hype surrounding Scrolls boils down to "It's by Notch" and "Bethesda's lawyers flipped out over the name" which isn't a good start. Notch's new space game sounds promising but by the sounds of it it'll take a while for it to reach the stage where people will buy it en-mass like we did with Minecraft.

  9. #29
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    GRRRRRRRR NOTTCH OWES ME INFINITE GAMEe!!!

  10. #30
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soldant View Post
    I'd say it's on the cards though. I mean is anybody here really looking forward to Scrolls? So far the hype surrounding Scrolls boils down to "It's by Notch" and "Bethesda's lawyers flipped out over the name" which isn't a good start. Notch's new space game sounds promising but by the sounds of it it'll take a while for it to reach the stage where people will buy it en-mass like we did with Minecraft.
    I agree that they'll likely never hit it quite as well as Minecraft, but I suppose I don't expect them to snort enough coke to run through the money before they realize a more stable long-term plan.
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  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    This seems like exactly the same situation Valve was in with Team Fortress 2. New sales dried up, but they wanted to continue to support the product with new content, so they adopted a new business model. People are generally happy about continuing development with TF2, right?

    They could stop development on Minecraft now, if they wanted, they've fulfilled their obligations - but doesn't everyone want to keep seeing updates? Should the team just keep working on the game ad infinitum even after sales (read: money to pay their salaries) dry up?

  12. #32
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    Should the team just keep working on the game ad infinitum even after sales (read: money to pay their salaries) dry up?
    Except for the minor detail that the vast majority of 'the team' isn't working on Minecraft and never was.

    I don't have a problem with the fact that Notch made a bajillion dollars out of Minecraft for the sum of $136.70 invested. But when that happens what I don't expect to see is subsequent fiddling over small change, not when there are no shareholders requiring him to wring every last cent that he can from the public. For some reason I find it a bit objectionable that those who propelled him to wealth and stardom are now to be asked to bear the burden of his subsequent fiscal irresponsibility.

  13. #33
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smashbox View Post
    This seems like exactly the same situation Valve was in with Team Fortress 2. New sales dried up, but they wanted to continue to support the product with new content, so they adopted a new business model. People are generally happy about continuing development with TF2, right??
    Yeah, they found a way to make money out of the previously untapped resource of community development. Got to hand it to them, they did a real good job with selling that to the community.

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Smashbox's Avatar
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    POSSIBLE D-D-DERAILMENT:

    Selling items for TF2 is one of the most lucrative ways for a modder to spend their time. Are people actually​ outraged by this?

  15. #35
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    It's an infinite contract bought with finite money. It's on its very head patently untenable.
    It sounds like you're deliberately forgetting Notch made so much money out of what was essentially a bedroom that they could keep developing MC for decades, if they wanted to.

    Now, I think my point's been made and the question mark in the topic's title hasn't been totally disregarded so it's all good. It's just a matter of waiting and seeing how things turn out.

    BTW I really came to like Notch's public persona and think he's made very smart moves (wish I was half as smart as him). Hopefully he won't let go of the 'good guy' attitude.
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  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    It sounds like you're deliberately forgetting Notch made so much money out of what was essentially a bedroom that they could keep developing MC for decades, if they wanted to.
    Are you thinking he should work for free then? Those are profits. The point here is that if a business intends to provide a sustained service then they need to generate a sustained income to support it. It is bad practice to eat into your profits, those should be re-invested.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SanguineAngel View Post
    Are you thinking he should work for free then?
    Yes, I'm a communist. Think like, Obama's twin brother, only shorter, paler and far less powerful.
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  18. #38
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    I think the issue is that Notch isn't a businessman. He's one dude who stumbled upon a great idea at the right time and did really well. Unfortunately he should have hired a businessman to help him run Mojang. What you are seeing here is a typical response to someone getting rich very quickly.

    If I made $5 million dollars as quickly as he did I'd invest it and use the income from my investment to organically grow the company.

    I hope he manages to sort his cashflow out and make a few games but this strikes me as applying a small Mr. Men plaster to a gaping axe wound.

  19. #39
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    It sounds like you're deliberately forgetting Notch made so much money out of what was essentially a bedroom that they could keep developing MC for decades, if they wanted to.
    You mean, if it remained largely a one-guy operation and he lived in Montana off the interest on his few millions.

    But let's assume the guy is human, Alms. Let's assume he uses the money as he has, which is to start a company and hire employees and continue new operations and not just run Minecraft forever as a public service. Y'know, because Notch is an actual person and not just the perfect spectre that fans of Minecraft want him to be.

    Thing is, companies have ongoing costs that need to be covered with ongoing revenue. Hence.
    Last edited by Nalano; 10-05-2012 at 07:34 PM.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BDH View Post
    I think the issue is that Notch isn't a businessman. He's one dude who stumbled upon a great idea at the right time and did really well. Unfortunately he should have hired a businessman to help him run Mojang. What you are seeing here is a typical response to someone getting rich very quickly.

    If I made $5 million dollars as quickly as he did I'd invest it and use the income from my investment to organically grow the company.

    I hope he manages to sort his cashflow out and make a few games but this strikes me as applying a small Mr. Men plaster to a gaping axe wound.
    He did employ a businessman - that's who was quoted in the OP...

    It's an out of context quote anyway, as I mentioned before there's no indication that it actually has anything to do with Minecraft, and it's far more likely he's talking about Notch's new space game which will have a subscription model for the multi-player features.

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