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  1. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mistabashi View Post
    No, he really doesn't Dexter. Why are you so obsessed with Nalano anyway?
    Cause in every thread I seem to stumble into on this illustrious board he seems to be right there defending EA or Bioware or Activision or whatever publisher/developer/corporate entity it is crapping on their customers at the moment, in this case Mojang against the evil influences and "entitlement complexes" of their consumers.
    Been through it before with EA in this thread: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...sumerist-happy

    And here he's going on about how gaming press FOR the consumer, where it doesn't just seem like a huge advertisement with screenshots and flickering videos and a healthier relationship between publishers/developers and their consumer base is "pandering" and portrays a "customer is always right mantra", also how he thought the RPS article about that guy getting his account banned for apparently no reason and similar articles are "hopelessly tainted reporting on the controversy": http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...e-gaming-sites
    Last edited by Dexter; 12-05-2012 at 01:36 PM.

  2. #82
    Lesser Hivemind Node Keep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter View Post
    Boy, the more Nalano says, the more he sounds like some sort of caricature upholding the flag for the robber barons during the industrialization
    I think you're confusing someone saying "There're reasons for this" with their saying "I endorse this".

    Nalano's a good dose of reality to the naive idealism/myopic indulgence that floats around some of these conversations. But he's more cynical bastard than corporate shill.
    Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.

  3. #83
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    I reckon Nalano is a Bethesda double-agent.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  4. #84
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Bethesda has good lawyers, no need for agents.

  5. #85
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep View Post
    I think you're confusing someone saying "There're reasons for this" with their saying "I endorse this".

    Nalano's a good dose of reality to the naive idealism/myopic indulgence that floats around some of these conversations. But he's more cynical bastard than corporate shill.
    Seriously. If you want to combat them effectively, it helps to know why they do what they do. My personal desires, however, are so left of center that discussion of the details of any specific capitalist endeavor is more an academic exercise than a means to a solution.
    Last edited by Nalano; 12-05-2012 at 04:50 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  6. #86
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    but... the evil corporations!

  7. #87
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Sorta like how Russians dealt with a Soviet dictatorship by becoming politically agnostic, corporations are now a Thing we just have to Deal With™.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  8. #88
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Sorta like how Russians dealt with a Soviet dictatorship by becoming politically agnostic, corporations are now a Thing we just have to Deal With™.
    No way, if we bitch about it on random internet message boards and post links to "totally legit" sources about conspiracy theories, it will fix things.

  9. #89
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    No way, if we bitch about it on random internet message boards and post links to "totally legit" sources about conspiracy theories, it will fix things.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  10. #90
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Haha, nice.

  11. #91
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dexter View Post
    Cause in every thread I seem to stumble into on this illustrious board he seems to be right there defending EA or Bioware or Activision or whatever publisher/developer/corporate entity it is crapping on their customers at the moment, in this case Mojang against the evil influences and "entitlement complexes" of their consumers.
    Been through it before with EA in this thread: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...sumerist-happy

    And here he's going on about how gaming press FOR the consumer, where it doesn't just seem like a huge advertisement with screenshots and flickering videos and a healthier relationship between publishers/developers and their consumer base is "pandering" and portrays a "customer is always right mantra", also how he thought the RPS article about that guy getting his account banned for apparently no reason and similar articles are "hopelessly tainted reporting on the controversy": http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...e-gaming-sites
    On a long enough timeline, all threads become about me. Death, taxes, Nalano.

    Three things:

    1) You can embed links within words.
    2) Can you spell 'kneejerk?' While you may want to err on the side of consumers, that shouldn't preclude actually looking at the facts.
    3) Do you honestly think that you're fighting the Man, here on the boards?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  12. #92
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    We're always fighting the Man, any time, any where. Of course, the Man isn't listening and doesn't care, which is why we need people like you and deano2578289573457849574858 who we can pretend are evil shills instead of just random blokes, meaning that with every post we are fighting the good fight against the bloodsucking corporate machine, rather than just having pointless arguments to pass the time before we can leave work.
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  13. #93
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    Nalano is equally happy to bash kickstarter.

    Interesting concept, but I hate Kickstarter. The hipster vibes it gives off makes my teeth ache.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...ks-interesting

    It's a gold rush. The boomtowns are booming, and when the money dries up they'll disappear just as fast.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...on-Kickstarter!

    Ben Kuchera weighs in.

    I'm inclined to agree: People are hitting the marks for what they're asking, but that doesn't mean we'll get games out of it.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...-et-alia/page2

    My qualms with the system, however, are more along the lines of the nebulous answer as to how things are enforced, the plethora of money holes for projects that will clearly never be completed, and the whole gold rush get-rich-quick bandwagon that one successfully funded project has fomented. To me it's a fad, and it will pass, but not before a pile of hopefuls ask me for my tens and twenties during the next few months.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...n-the-long-run

    Personally, I don't hold much stock in Kickstarter. I know it's successfully funded 50+ games thus far (according to Checkpoint) but I'm not aware of any games successfully developed. I see piles and piles of cash grabs, but no associated result. This particular cash grab just seems more cash-grabby than most.
    http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/foru...starter-failed

    If he's not a big publisher sock puppet, he's doing a great job acting like one.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    If he's not a big publisher sock puppet, he's doing a great job acting like one.
    Or he's just cynical. Or realistic, that depends on how you look at it. You may disagree with him, but it can't hurt to have someone not caught up in the current kickstarter mania voice his concerns, which to me seem very valid. The first 'theoretically-backed-but-then-it-still-wasn't-enough-money' project will happen sooner or later, as will a successful scam.

  15. #95
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus b0rsuk's Avatar
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    I am skeptical of Kickstarter, and pretty much everything else. But I'm willing to take a risk when the alternative is having mind numbingly repetitive games. Big publishers love template games - they just change the story and artwork. Don't kiss the ass that's in the process of shitting on you.


    Funding of a Kickstarter project is proportional to developer's competency, reputation and cool features the game will have. That can't be said about big publishers. "Game title 2" is funded by "Game title 1". By buying a game you like you are funding some future game you haven't heard about, let alone are interested in. Publishers seem to know only 1 way of using more funding: more voice acting and eyecandy. Giving them more money won't make them make more interesting or varied games. It will only make their games more shiny.
    Last edited by b0rsuk; 13-05-2012 at 12:04 PM.

  16. #96
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b0rsuk View Post
    If he's not a big publisher sock puppet, he's doing a great job acting like one.
    How am I a big publisher sock puppet if I point out that the model is flawed? It doesn't take a genius to figure out that two guys will not make a fresh FPS engine for 40k in under six months. It doesn't take any special insight to point out that there's no oversight to how the money is spent. Saying that Kickstarter is a bad idea is not the same thing as saying publishers are our saviors.

    I think you're putting words in my mouth. I think you're insinuating that I'm saying something akin to "Kickstarter is fraught with peril, and therefore new developers should stick with patently unfair publisher contracts." No, I'm saying some outfits aren't cut out to be developers at all: They lack the discipline, or their model is wrong, or one of a plethora of reasons that show them to be bad investments. I'm saying they'd likely be better off as employees of another developer than developers on their own. Just because you're good at programming doesn't mean you're good at everything else it takes to run a business.

    Does that mean we see fewer games that really appeal to us? Yes, but likely they weren't going to exist anyway: They'd be stuck in development hell forever because they'd hemorrhage money on stupid shit, or their appeal's so niche that they can't really make their ambitious goals under budget. For every project with a Plan - and the gravitas to back it - there's dozens that don't stand a chance. And a rosy view on the feasibility of potential projects based on consumer wants is really just increasing the size of the bubble.

    But of course, y'all are allowed to believe that just because something sounds nice, that means it's in any way feasible. I think a massive public works project to rejuvenate our aging rail system while hiring lots of engineers and laborers sounds nice, but I'm aware of the political hurdles that stand in its way. I'm aware Obama's been getting lackluster support from his base because his jobs programs have been lackluster, but I'm also aware that the reality of the situation is the result of the politics involved, not his personal views.

    To quote Stephen Colbert, "reality has a well-known liberal bias," but some kids take that as carte blanche to have a flowers and rainbows view on everything.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  17. #97
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, while Nalano and I don't agree on much, the man clearly knows what he's talking about and is one of the more balanced posters here. He's taking a more realistic approach to how the world works rather than being ridiculously cynical or blindly optimistic. In doing that he doesn't necessarily endorse or support those perspectives, but he acknowledges that that's how the world works. I'm not seeing any contradictions here. I am seeing a fairly balanced viewpoint.


    Regarding Kickstarter Nalano's assessment is largely correct; a significant number of devs have jumped on the bandwagon because DoubleFine made a friggin' fortune, so maybe they can too. It's the ultimate get big quick idea except unlike in the dotcom boom it's games instead of websites. It's still young enough that nobody's had a chance to fail yet. Everybody can point to big projects like DoubleFine's new adventure game and go "See? It works!" but groups like DoubleFine are too big to fail. A lot of the more "innovative" gaming ideas come from small indie studios with nothing much to show for their efforts and no real evidence that they'll ever achieve that goal. As Nalano said, if a team isn't disciplined and doesn't have the experience and knowledge to go the distance, your Kickstarter money is wasted. All it will take is for a small number of projects to fail, and that'll be the end of it.

    Incidentally I'm glad that RPS use their discretion when posting about Kickstarters.

  18. #98
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    "Good Monday, twitter! This weekend Minecraft turned 3 years old, and we had a second best Saturday new premium players (~15k) for 2012!" -- jeb

    Whoa, that market is so totally saturated =)
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  19. #99
    Well that's certainly exciting for Mojang. No doubt due to the 360 release. Also, 2nd best saturday new premium players is a very specific stat and in isolation doesn't really tell us a lot about any trends.

    But in light of other information, looks like the 360 release is going very well and Mojang are hopefully reaping the rewards. Perhaps this resurgence will affect any possible sub related decisions

  20. #100
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    "Good Monday, twitter! This weekend Minecraft turned 3 years old, and we had a second best Saturday new premium players (~15k) for 2012!" -- jeb

    Whoa, that market is so totally saturated =)
    Minecraft's humongous amount of sales is something that will forever boggle my mind. Checked just now, 5.9 Million. Million! Most AAA titles don't reach those numbers in their wildest dreams.

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