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  1. #181
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    ^This.

    Indeed. I'm sorry Redspielened, but there's nothing insightful about describing money as 'fictional'. It's only 'fictional' when you've a lot of it to spare (as the often gauche extravagances of the wealthy demonstrate). For the vast majority of people money is very much a 'reality'.
    It wouldn't seem as pretentious if he had given all of his money away to charity or something. Instead, he purchased a $150,000 car.

  2. #182
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus soldant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    It wouldn't seem as pretentious if he had given all of his money away to charity or something. Instead, he purchased a $150,000 car.
    I'm sure he did it as ironically as possible, because irony is... um... well, he's just on another level from us.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    It wouldn't seem as pretentious if he had given all of his money away to charity or something. Instead, he purchased a $150,000 car.
    I don't begrudge people their money or what they choose to spend it on, but it's more the 'money doesn't matter' attitude that grates. In many ways that attitude does other indie developers many of whom might not share the same level of financial success a disservice.

  4. #184
    Network Hub zanchito's Avatar
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    Diablo III . :/ Beyond Good and Evil. Psychonauts. :(

  5. #185
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep View Post
    Not rewriting - writing.
    So? The whole point of a nationalist myth is to differentiate and elevate yours above others. Especially when you decide to invent one in the 19th freakin' century. It's one of the primary tools of propagandists in the name of imperialism - Manifest Destiny, for instance, is a concept invented specifically to justify and lionize wholesale robbery and murder by coaching it in terms of the cultural uplift of inferiors. That's the effect of nationalist myths. They are far from benign.

    As for the Irish, being part Irish myself, the myths around St Patrick mean to me less about Irish identity than, say, clan histories or literary traditions or life under the yoke of the Church or the English or the diaspora. If anything they're allegorical supports to the inroads of the Catholics - again, there's that justification of "cultural uplift" - and I can leave that like a motherfucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by redspielened View Post
    My point was precisely that people were talking about him being rich suddenly invalidated his criticism or points about the financial system. That is a fallacy, not to mention the fact that you don't know what his finances were like before he became rich nor if he has always had these view or not. Simply put, it's very short sighted.

    In any case, too much drivel around here for me, so I'll just be off.
    Now, if you actually read what Kadayi wrote instead of just fabricating his views (strawman - hey, a fallacy!), you'd notice that he made the very reasonable point that somebody who works for a living would never consider money to be a fiction. Intellectually, blah blah paper money government fiat blah, but only those who have never had to go without would be so incredulously cavalier about the stuff.

    But you're heading off, so don't let the e-door hit you on your way out.
    Last edited by Nalano; 15-05-2012 at 08:52 AM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  6. #186
    Most FPS games. I struggle to complete them as I just lose interest. Time spent playing them feels like it runs slowly, e.g an hour or two playing an FPS will feel like a slog, whilst time spent playing something like Crusader Kings 2 seems to rush by.

    To name a specific title: Bioshock- probably the least enjoyable game I have played in the last 3 or 4 years. there are a lot of memorable moments, put I did not overall enjoy playing the game. Would have probably loved an rpg in that setting.

    Other FPS games I own but have failed to hold my attention include: Half life 2, Crysis, Crysis 2, borderlands, farcry, arma 2

    I loved Deus EX and Fallout 3/ Fallout NV so i think I need something a bit extra to hold my attention.

  7. #187
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus DaftPunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    It wouldn't seem as pretentious if he had given all of his money away to charity or something. Instead, he purchased a $150,000 car.
    Haha acting all good and shit,you would do the same shit if you had ton of money.

  8. #188
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Althea's Avatar
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    I wouldn't. I don't drive.


  9. #189
    Lesser Hivemind Node Keep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    So? The whole point of a nationalist myth is to differentiate and elevate yours above others. Especially when you decide to invent one in the 19th freakin' century. It's one of the primary tools of propagandists in the name of imperialism - Manifest Destiny, for instance, is a concept invented specifically to justify and lionize wholesale robbery and murder by coaching it in terms of the cultural uplift of inferiors. That's the effect of nationalist myths. They are far from benign.
    I think we're using the word "myth" in different ways. I mean it as referring to legends, the Leabhar Gabhala, Tain Bo Cuailgne, the story of Clann Lir. I think it's pretty harmless for different cultures to have different stories that explain their history and who they are, and for someone like Tolkien to feel left out and want to invent such a mythology for his culture.

    But you're using it as referring to a belief used to justify social or political actions, and I'm not going to argue that writing those kind of myths is wrong.

    I'm just not sure the Ring Cycle is that kind of myth though. (Heck, you could almost interpret it as expressing the opposite of the German nations' inherent superiority - the King of the Gods, if we identify him and his family with the German people, acquires the ring that gives power over the world by stealing it, not by right or merit).
    Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    Heart of Darkness was written by a racist imperialist who honestly believed in the sentiment expressed by his contemporary's White Man's Burden. Ride of the Valkyries was composed by a fascist antisemite and was practically used as the anthem for lebensraum.

    Such art is still worth consuming.
    Is this is a suitable moment for me to go off on my favourite rant about how Heart of Darkness is the worst thing in the universe?
    Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.

  11. #191
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    I really did SO want to love La Noir. By christ it got tedious though.

  12. #192
    Lesser Hivemind Node Keep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Is this is a suitable moment for me to go off on my favourite rant about how Heart of Darkness is the worst thing in the universe?
    Yes: run with it.
    Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.

  13. #193
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus thegooseking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    I don't begrudge people their money or what they choose to spend it on, but it's more the 'money doesn't matter' attitude that grates. In many ways that attitude does other indie developers many of whom might not share the same level of financial success a disservice.
    It's basically this "money can't buy you happiness" attitude which is so damn trite. I mean, sure, I firmly believe that there are many more important things in this world than money, but whenever anyone says "money can't buy you happiness", I want to take them to one side and physically force them to replace 'money' with 'poverty' and 'happiness' with 'misery' and see if they still feel the same way.

    It's like that episode of Firefly where the guy describes the part Mal needs as "a nothing part", and Mal says something like, "It's nothing until you don't have one; then it seems like the most important thing in the world." That's a metaphor for money right there.
    "Moronic cynicism is a kind of na´vetÚ. It's na´vetÚ turned inside-out. Na´vetÚ wearing a sneer." -Momus

  14. #194
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NathanH View Post
    Is this is a suitable moment for me to go off on my favourite rant about how Heart of Darkness is the worst thing in the universe?
    The link proffered under "racist" beat you to it. Still, it's worth a read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keep View Post
    But you're using it as referring to a belief used to justify social or political actions, and I'm not going to argue that writing those kind of myths is wrong.
    Nationalist myths are a means to an end, and that includes the Ring Cycle. "Nationalist myth" is a single term. Cultural myths attempt the same things, and we've had plenty of wars thanks to them, but they're likelier not as strong a part of the national psyche, nor do all people necessarily have the ability to act on them. (Unless your nation is also mono-cultural, in which case watch the fuck out.)

    You're misusing the term "wrong." I'm not ascribing an absolutist moral judgement here. I'm pointing out that there are biases inherent in everything, and you should always strive to recognize them when they're there. A lot of the shit you'll read that came from Way Back are horrible treatises and untenable visions on how to live in this world and deal with other people. But you'd never know that if you didn't read them.
    Last edited by Nalano; 15-05-2012 at 06:49 PM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  15. #195
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Ravelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiddenPooh View Post
    I really did SO want to love La Noir. By christ it got tedious though.
    I loved it but when I realized that my fuckups didn't impact anything I could have just as well watched a Noir film.
    Steam | Origin: xRavelle | Skype: TheRavelle | PSN: Voltburn | Watch me struggle through my backlog

  16. #196
    lol @ hipster derail

    ---
    Back on topic:

    Cave Story + --Just can't get into it.

    Deadly Premonition: I know it's of the "so good it's bad" variety, but if the first act doesn't hurry up I'm going to just stop playing.

    Hacker Evolution: Meeeeeeh.

    Swords and Sorcery: Again, trying to get into this one. Failing miserably. Seems to be all soundtrack and interesting visuals.

  17. #197
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravelle View Post
    I loved it but when I realized that my fuckups didn't impact anything I could have just as well watched a Noir film.
    Far from the weird turn the story did, my biggest concern was that there was no there there. Everybody's already ragged on the big swath of downtown LA that's been mapped but is of no use but to drag out time driving from point A to point B, but there's also the fact that you're really just running through the whole thing in a linear fashion: There's a right way and a wrong way to solve these cases and that's it. If you did it the right way, you get a cookie. If you did it the wrong way, you re-do it.

    Now, that just puts it into the field of point-and-click adventure games, which is fine. I like a lot of 'em. The Dig and Grim Fandango are my favorites. But if that's all the game is, then the entire game world, from the map to the separate departments to the side-missions to the mini-games, is one giant red herring. So much wasted potential.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  18. #198
    Network Hub Salix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    RTS's I own a few...I want to love them...I just can't bring myself to care for them.
    I get this as well, I loved the original C&C when it first appeared but now I just cannot care about any RTS.

    Also, Bloodbowl. Maybe its because I spent so much time playing the tabletop version that I can't really bring myself to love it even after 20 odd hours over two versions.

  19. #199
    Lesser Hivemind Node Keep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    You're misusing the term "wrong." I'm not ascribing an absolutist moral judgement here. I'm pointing out that there are biases inherent in everything, and you should always strive to recognize them when they're there. A lot of the shit you'll read that came from Way Back are horrible treatises and untenable visions on how to live in this world and deal with other people. But you'd never know that if you didn't read them.
    Well that's true. There's a lot of ugliness in historical art, and in modern, and it's good to know how they relate and what they're really saying. And by "wrong" I meant "contemptible" but yeah I was unclear.

    Moving on though, what I was trying to say with Wagner was that to me "His ideas I don't like" and "The ideas in the Ring Cycle" don't seem to be the same thing, therefore I can say "I don't like Wagner but I do like the Ring Cycle" (Well, I don't actually have an opinion on the Ring Cycle, but hey.)

    And you might be making me reconsider that, and Conrad too. But...hm. Feck.

    But my initial point was, I'd like to say I could appreciate a work of art regardless of its creator, but I know I can't. Not if it hits that perfect storm of expressing exactly what I don't like about the creator. Example time: I think John Lennon's peace activism is in one way kind of endearing but in another insipid, naive, useless, stupid. So is it possible for me to enjoy Imagine? No. I can not do it. I can't. If I didn't know about the Bed-In or such, maybe I could enjoy it as a trite li'l song. But knowing what I do about its composer? Can't do it.

    My opinion on She Said, She Said? Awesome tune. Brilliant. But Imagine? Vom.
    Last edited by Keep; 16-05-2012 at 12:33 AM.
    Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.

  20. #200
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keep View Post
    Example time: I think John Lennon's peace activism is in one way kind of endearing but in another insipid, naive, useless, stupid. So is it possible for me to enjoy Imagine? No. I can not do it. I can't.
    You say you got a real solution, well you know
    We'd all love to see the plan
    You ask me for a contribution, well you know
    We're doing what we can
    But when you want money for people with minds that hate
    All I can tell is brother you have to wait
    Don't you know it's gonna be alright

    Simply enough premise in that song written by Lennon: Reform > revolution. An imperfect system is preferable to an absence of central authority. Activists who want to take up arms don't quite realize just how bloody revolution actually is, and the American condition isn't nearly extreme enough to warrant a taking up of arms. You don't have to be a new-age hippie to sign up to that. :P
    Last edited by Nalano; 16-05-2012 at 01:19 AM.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

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