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Thread: Games You Want To Love But Can't
14-05-2012, 09:14 PM #161
14-05-2012, 09:28 PM #162
14-05-2012, 09:29 PM #163
And if you're a bit crude, you won't appreciate that and just knowing who made it will distort your opinion of the product and you'll unfairly hate it regardless of what it's saying on its own merits.
But even if you're more fair-minded, even if you're good at critical distance and even-handed judgments, every so often what the product expresses coincides with that very thing you hate about the person. And if that's the case, no, you won't be able to get over it.Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
14-05-2012, 09:47 PM #164
racist imperialist who honestly believed in the sentiment expressed by his contemporary's White Man's Burden. Ride of the Valkyries was composed by a fascist antisemite and was practically used as the anthem for lebensraum.
Such art is still worth consuming.
14-05-2012, 09:59 PM #165
What about something like Sex and Character? Could you read about Otto Weiniger as a person, and then read that and not conflate its anti-semitism and misogyny with his own?Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
14-05-2012, 10:05 PM #166
14-05-2012, 10:18 PM #167
You can interpret the Ring Cycle's themes in loads of different ways - no real work of art slots into a two sentence summary - but I don't think any one of those interpretations boils down to "Jews cause society's problems, let's kill the Jews".
Now there may be scenes in there that suggest (maybe even directly espouse) anti-semitic ideas, but the purpose of the work isn't anti-semitism. Likewise, people may have appropriated the work, or parts of it, to express their own anti-semitic ideas, but again that's got nothing to do with the meaning of the work itself.
So hating Wagner because he was a racist, you can't transfer that hatred onto the Ring Cycle. So it's possible to separate the two and say "Those are great operas (in spite of their composer)". I don't think you could do that if the Ring Cycle really directly was expressing "Jews are the problem, kill the Jews".
Last edited by Keep; 14-05-2012 at 10:20 PM.Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
14-05-2012, 10:20 PM #168
- Join Date
- Jul 2011
Rail Tycoon. Any of them - I just bounce off them, and I don't know why. Usually I can get really caught up in a good construction / sandbox game, and I love Transport Tycoon, but something about the former just leaves me cold. Maybe it's the slightly soulless graphics and overly clinical presentation, there's just no joy in it. Which is a shame, as I've played Transport Tycoon to death and there's nothing else really like it out there.
Now if you'll excuse me I have to go re-install OpenTTD and make a rail network that spans the entirety of The West Country...
14-05-2012, 10:26 PM #169
14-05-2012, 10:52 PM #170
I am enjoying this
14-05-2012, 10:59 PM #171
Last edited by Kadayi; 14-05-2012 at 11:02 PM.
14-05-2012, 11:03 PM #172
14-05-2012, 11:04 PM #173
14-05-2012, 11:06 PM #174
There's a gulf between being proud of your culture and being hateful towards others. As someone who's proud of being Irish, of our music, myths, language, I don't like it being implied that surely therefore I'm a racist.
At the same time, yeah, sometimes the difference can seem not like a gulf but the tiniest of separations. It's something that can slide the wrong way very easily. Whatever about Wagner though, I don't think the Ring Cycle itself is saying "The German people are BETTER than any others, so kill them" - anymore than the Lord of the Rings is saying the same about English people.Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
14-05-2012, 11:06 PM #175
You need to realise that it's entirely possible to separate the product from the person, and judge each accordingly on their relative merits. Like most people I know I think Bono is a complete cock these days, however that doesn't stop me from appreciating some of the music U2 have produced over the years. Similarly I like Jarvis Cocker, but I don't think everything he's done is golden. It is possible to enjoy a game, a song, a film or a painting and not feel obliged to drop on all fours and hail the creator as some unadulterated genius. Criticism is not a hate crime.
Last edited by Kadayi; 14-05-2012 at 11:10 PM.
14-05-2012, 11:13 PM #176
14-05-2012, 11:18 PM #177
Last edited by Kadayi; 14-05-2012 at 11:21 PM.
15-05-2012, 12:27 AM #178
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
My point was precisely that people were talking about him being rich suddenly invalidated his criticism or points about the financial system. That is a fallacy, not to mention the fact that you don't know what his finances were like before he became rich nor if he has always had these view or not. Simply put, it's very short sighted.
In any case, too much drivel around here for me, so I'll just be off.
15-05-2012, 12:57 AM #179
I'm being way harsh on Jonathan Blow in this thread. I actually think it's great and really important that there are game designers like him about. He is all right in my books. But man you gotta admit he acts like a spanner and that article is the spanneriest of spanners to ever span this...uh. Spanner.Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
15-05-2012, 07:26 AM #180
Indeed. I'm sorry Redspielened, but there's nothing insightful about describing money as 'fictional'. It's only 'fictional' when you've a lot of it to spare (as the often gauche extravagances of the wealthy demonstrate). For the vast majority of people money is very much a 'reality'.