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  1. #41
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus bonkers's Avatar
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    Yeah. I was able to withstand Ubisoft, but here I failed. Miserably. Guilty as hell, and even feeling a little bit bad about it :(

  2. #42
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    @ Joof

    Why does protecting the economy or characters matter?

    Again if I hacked my character how does that have any effect on you or your game?

    Also, you know you could just have optional cloud saves to protect your character right? That is a thing that does in fact exist.

    @ Woundedbum

    Unlike Diablo 3, Diablo 2 and Warcraft 3 servers were only ever used by a small portion of players and with a much smaller server cost. In Diablo 3 however, every player has to use it and each user uses a whole lot more of it. Point being Diablo 3 servers are going to be far far far more expensive to run. We're basically talking the running cost of a full on mmorpg. But unlike WoW theres a definite end point and no online clan or realm war to keep it going. So there's going to be a dramatic drop off in 6 months.

    Do you trust they'll keep every server running when only a tiny number of hardcore players are still using it?
    Last edited by Bhazor; 15-05-2012 at 10:31 PM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joof View Post
    Saves my characters, legitimizes the economy and characters, and some other features, yeah, pretty much.
    It is a mostly single player game, wtf does it matter what people do with their singleplayer character, cheat, hack their save, whatever they want. Blizzard could have just had online and offline characters.

  4. #44
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joof View Post
    Saves my characters, legitimizes the economy and characters, and some other features, yeah, pretty much.
    I don't need an economy for my single-player game.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  5. #45
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    Why are people calling it a mostly single-player game? I thought multiplayer, co-op and pvp, was a big part of it too? Wasn't a huge reason why Diablo 2 was so well known its multiplayer? I don't think of this as something like Assassin's Creed 2, which really was a single player game, that had restrictive drm attached to it anyway.

  6. #46
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicolor View Post
    Why are people calling it a mostly single-player game? I thought multiplayer, co-op and pvp, was a big part of it too? Wasn't a huge reason why Diablo 2 was so well known its multiplayer? I don't think of this as something like Assassin's Creed 2, which really was a single player game, that had restrictive drm attached to it anyway.
    Because the vast majority of players will play only the single-player. This is and has always been the case with games that had a multiplayer element but weren't multiplayer-only. And I didn't buy AssCreed2 because of its DRM.

    ...well, that and its Dan Brown plot.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  7. #47
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    Depends on how strong the focus is on multiplayer vs single-player and vice-versa, but that's getting into an entirely different discussion. I guess I just don't really see Diablo games as mainly singleplayer games. /shrug.

  8. #48
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicolor View Post
    Depends on how strong the focus is on multiplayer vs single-player and vice-versa, but that's getting into an entirely different discussion. I guess I just don't really see Diablo games as mainly singleplayer games. /shrug.
    Well, to each his own, but you are decidedly in the minority.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I don't need an economy for my single-player game.
    That's cool. But, when included with some other features, I see enough value in protecting the legitimacy of the multiplayer that compromising parts of single player can be defensible if the single player could be reverse engineered to produce exploits that would harm the rest of the community.

  10. #50
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    But what if compromising the single player results in shit like this launch day disaster that is all over game foruming places right now? Do you see it as a necessary evil to totally protect the game from hacks and the like?

    Personally I'm not sure what to do, I would like to play the game but my internet is shit enough that I can't be assured of a perfect experience, it's pretty offputting! There's always the trial to see how my internet will cope though.
    Last edited by cosmicolor; 15-05-2012 at 11:54 PM.

  11. #51
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    @Joof
    Again. For the third time.

    How does what I do affect you?

  12. #52
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicolor View Post
    But what if compromising the single player results in shit like this launch day disaster that is all over game foruming places right now? Do you see it as a necessary evil to totally protect the game from hacks and the like?
    1-2 days of pain are better than how Diablo 2 online ended up.

  13. #53
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joof View Post
    That's cool. But, when included with some other features, I see enough value in protecting the legitimacy of the multiplayer that compromising parts of single player can be defensible if the single player could be reverse engineered to produce exploits that would harm the rest of the community.
    Okay, that's fine and all. But once again, what about people that don't want to play online?!
    Also, if you really, honestly think this Always-on retardation will prevent ANYTHING, you're living in an impossible wonderland.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    @Joof
    Again. For the third time.

    How does what I do affect you?
    What you said above? It doesn't. What someone who wants to use the single player engine to reverse engineer exploits used to disrupt the wider community? That lessens my enjoyment of the game.

  15. #55
    Lesser Hivemind Node Bhazor's Avatar
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    @Sirkicksalot

    Private servers. Password protected servers. Lan play. Remember those? You never had to see a single bot if you put a password on your game and only invited your friends.

    @Joof

    What community? You mean other people playing co-op?

    There is no over world, there is no persistance, there is no great clan war, there are no complex hierarchical player run corporations theres not even any PvP.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rauten View Post
    Okay, that's fine and all. But once again, what about people that don't want to play online?!
    Also, if you really, honestly think this Always-on retardation will prevent ANYTHING, you're living in an impossible wonderland.
    /me shrugs.

    If someone else doesn't think it's worth it, or don't ever want to play online, that's fine, and they can keep requesting a standalone client, and if Blizzard can make it so it can't be used to exploit the rest of the game, then I'm fine with that. I'm just saying that I personally don't mind the always on connection since Blizzard has given me enough things to make up for it, and it's trivially easy for me to have an internet connection.

    And right now, the "always on retardation", is preventing people from playing the game, so obviously it's preventing something. :P Nice to reaffirm you're not in impossible wonderland all the time.

  17. #57
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post
    What community? You mean other people playing co-op?

    There is no over world, there is no persistance, there is no great clan war, there are no complex hierarchical player run corporations theres not even any PvP.
    There are the BattleNet community features, forums and things like that. It's not more or less than, say, StarCraft has, and a fairly sizeable community has grown around that. The community will grow and thrive in those ancillary spaces, with tendrils reaching into the 'game' world itself.
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    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
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    No, you are literally the cancer that is killing gaming.
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    Nobody's ever lost sleep over being called a cracker.

  18. #58
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Rauten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joof View Post
    And right now, the "always on retardation", is preventing people from playing the game, so obviously it's preventing something. :P Nice to reaffirm you're not in impossible wonderland all the time.
    So it's even more retarded. And honestly, prevents people from reverse engineering in single player? seriously? do you honestly, truly believe this? Because I have one word for you: piracy.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    I don't need an economy for my single-player game.
    Well maybe you do? This is the actual problem, as I see it. At least at higher difficulties, the game is balanced around the existence of an economy. You need that really good loot to be strong enough to beat the toughest challenges. So if you're a Witchdoctor, and you get some really good loot for a Barbarian, you can trade it (via the gold or RM AHs) for something that better suits your character and preferred build.

    Without that you just vendor it, start grinding again, and hope you get luckier. Without trading, the toughest difficulties become a huge, huge grind. And that's a problem that's not apparent right away, or for a very long time, so why it's awkward to warn someone of it before they even create their character.

    Second point: I'd rather have this DRM than basically any other DRM (I'd prefer no DRM, obviously). Mostly because it works. It'll take a long time for server emulators to be anywhere near good enough, and short of a code leak, they'll still be inferior. And I kinda like the idea that other people can't play a game for free that I paid for. Even though it doesn't actually affect my playing of the game in the slightest.

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bhazor View Post

    @Joof

    What community? You mean other people playing co-op?

    There is no over world, there is no persistance, there is no great clan war, there are no complex hierarchical player run corporations theres not even any PvP.
    The community of people playing the game. The same way that Diablo 2 had a community even though it's one chat hub and a bunch of instanced games. The same way that Kingdom of Loathing has a community even though it's pretty much people playing a single player game bound together with a chat room, the ability to sell things they find to each other, and a crappy PVP minigame. The same way that most of Guild Wars was played by yourself or in small groups unless you're in a city.

    ...

    I think I may just be a big fan of the "Everyone's playing a single player/small group co-op game, all bound together by a chat room and an economy" model.

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