Diablo 3: let's talk about the actual game bit

[bonkers]

Friend of mine is playing mainly on the US servers from EU and also told me that the US servers are currently unreachable from here. Seems to be a problem on Blizzards side.

[jryan]

Worst. Release. Ever.

I'm now pining for Torchlight II.

Granted, Torchlight II will be a huge hit, the game will be cracked and warezed and all sides will claim a victory and nobody will have learned anything.

[Moraven]

You could barely play WoW for 3 weeks after day 3. They hitting par. :)

[victory]

No, it's not. It's neither. It's a loot collection game. It's like collecting postage stamps. A slot machine.

While I think there's good reason to clump Diablo-likes under their own genre - say, "loot'em all" - Diablo clearly falls under the larger umbrella of action games, just like most videogames do. If you fail to execute actions quickly and accurately enough in Diablo, you lose. This is not true for a slot machine.

[Bankrotas]

While I think there's good reason to clump Diablo-likes under their own genre - say, "loot'em all" - Diablo clearly falls under the larger umbrella of action games, just like most videogames do. If you fail to execute actions quickly and accurately enough in Diablo, you lose. This is not true for a slot machine.

How about, your hard investment into loot is so random that it can be crap or treasure, ergo slot machine.

[b0rsuk]

While I think there's good reason to clump Diablo-likes under their own genre - say, "loot'em all" - Diablo clearly falls under the larger umbrella of action games, just like most videogames do. If you fail to execute actions quickly and accurately enough in Diablo, you lose. This is not true for a slot machine.

Diablo is still one of slowest action games. It's more like real-time looting, and it's not turn-based only because it would confuse people unable to find the "end turn" button. The bar for playing well enough is very low. I can't remember anyone discussing "how to play Diablo better", "how to improve my skill in Diablo", "how do I learn to perform X". It's always "Which skills", "Which item". Never "How do I do".

[Dubbill]

I can't remember anyone discussing "how to play Diablo better", "how to improve my skill in Diablo", "how do I learn to perform X". It's always "Which skills", "Which item". Never "How do I do".

Maybe you aren't looking in the right places. A glance at the cesspit that is the official forum turns up:

http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4211046239
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/4210107554
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3962016507

and Google finds:

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...3-formula-list
http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forum...tats-affect-it

I agree that D3 isn't a terribly complicated game but for those that are interested in the underlying mechanics there's a lot of information to dig up and plenty of other curious players who are keen to learn and share.

[jnx]

I don't see any reason to play softcore since it's just pointless. Hardcore though is exciting and you do want to play better. Last night I lost my level 35 Witch Doctor. I wasn't really sad because I didn't like the class, but still he would've deserved not to die into such noobiness. To get hit by nightmare Butcher's hook when not on max health, AMATEUR.

[Jockie]

I don't see any reason to play softcore since it's just pointless. Hardcore though is exciting and you do want to play better. Last night I lost my level 35 Witch Doctor. I wasn't really sad because I didn't like the class, but still he would've deserved not to die into such noobiness. To get hit by nightmare Butcher's hook when not on max health, AMATEUR.

The problem with Hardcore is that Inferno is impossible without a few million deaths along the way, Hell has its moments too when you get elite packs with heavy CC & damage traits (good luck surviving the first time you meet an arcane fire chain vortex jailer pack). Hardcore gives you a glass ceiling and every time you die, you have to slog through the interminably dull Normal again.

[jnx]

Even normal can offer some exciting / scary moments. You may not notice that on softcore because the death penalty is.. well, isn't. I just don't see any value in reaching inferno or "doing inferno" on softcore. If you play, you progress, thus you'll be there. Hardcore though, imagine reaching inferno, that'd be something.

[b0rsuk]

Maybe you aren't looking in the right places. A glance at the cesspit that is the official forum turns up:

No, you don't understand. I'm criticizing the fact that, like M:tG, Diablo2 and 3 boils down to setting up your character before playing. Once you launch the game, you just follow the script and keep clicking on stuff. There is very little skill required to play the game.

Quake players have videos like this(Quake 1 completed on Nightmare with 100% kills, 100% secrets):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhzXKMqZBBc

Diablo players have videos like this ("Amazingly geared up wizard")
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=aWRO5BNYBek#!

The Quake video probably doesn't look like something you could achieve, ever. The Diablo video however - get the right items (through patience or Real Money Auction House) and almost everyone can play like that.

Winning formula for Diablo player:
(Game knowledge(items, enemies, skills) OR time spent on forums) * (patience OR money)

They Easy, Normal, Hard, Nightmare are called skill levels in Quake. Normal, Nightmare, Hell, Inferno are called difficulty levels in Diablo 3.

The problem with Hardcore is that Inferno is impossible without a few million deaths along the way, Hell has its moments too when you get elite packs with heavy CC & damage traits (good luck surviving the first time you meet an arcane fire chain vortex jailer pack). Hardcore gives you a glass ceiling and every time you die, you have to slog through the interminably dull Normal again.

jnx is able to continue playing on Hardcore because he's having fun as he plays. For him, the process seems to be at least as important as the goal.

[luckystriker]

So my first 60 was a Barb and Inferno was unplayable and unfun. I rerolled a DH and have now killed every boss but Diablo in inferno and am easily farming elites in ACT IV and Inferno Whimsyshire.

gg

You have 2 lvl 60s in inferno? I'm constantly amazed at how fast some ppl can play games. I bought the game on release day, have played it regularly everyday...and I've got a lvl 29 Wiz and lvl 31 WD in Act IV Normal lol

[Spider Jerusalem]

http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/com...power-leveling

[duff]

No, you don't understand. I'm criticizing the fact that, like M:tG, Diablo2 and 3 boils down to setting up your character before playing. Once you launch the game, you just follow the script and keep clicking on stuff. There is very little skill required to play the game.

Borsuk - That's a very narrowminded view. There is no doubt that Diablo is a gear based game, much like WoW, but if you think that the hot sweaty lump on the end of the keyboard is not a variable then you clearly haven't played that much of either game with pubbies. Given the extreme ease of the normal difficulty level I can see how you would jump to that conclusion though.

[sabrage]

I have such a bad love/hate relationship with this game. On the one hand, I can't stop fucking playing, but on the other, I wouldn't wish [molten/frozen/electified/frozen/vortex/plagued or any combination thereof] on my worst fucking enemy.

[jnx]

Vampiric - Extra Health - Shielding

[duff]

'Invulnerable' is truly the ultimate "fuck you trololol"

[Dubbill]

The Quake video probably doesn't look like something you could achieve, ever. The Diablo video however - get the right items (through patience or Real Money Auction House) and almost everyone can play like that.

Great choice of video. You're definitely demonstrating an open-minded approach. Why not select something like this which actually features some skill and teamwork.

With the right gear and build anyone can create videos showing crazy amounts of damage but no one is claiming that equipping items constitutes skill. Skill is shown in other ways - through speedruns, in-game achievements and player designed challenges.

[victory]

No, you don't understand. I'm criticizing the fact that, like M:tG, Diablo2 and 3 boils down to setting up your character before playing. Once you launch the game, you just follow the script and keep clicking on stuff. There is very little skill required to play the game.

That's not true for MtG. When you look at tournaments, it's clear that even between very serious players who play the same deck in tournaments, some win a lot more than others, which can only come down to the quality of decisions made during the game. Decks with significant options/player input are pretty much always the strongest. I don't think the designers would tolerate an autopilot deck dominating its tournament format and the tournaments turning into a series of coinflips.

[b0rsuk]

That's not true for MtG. When you look at tournaments, it's clear that even between very serious players who play the same deck in tournaments, some win a lot more than others, which can only come down to the quality of decisions made during the game. Decks with significant options/player input are pretty much always the strongest. I don't think the designers would tolerate an autopilot deck dominating its tournament format and the tournaments turning into a series of coinflips.

I'm not in a mood for analyzing M:tG tournaments now, but last time I checked, blue creatureless decks used 4x Umezawa's Jitte maindeck (A legendary piece of creature equipment). This puts competence of M:tG designers under serious doubt.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/magic_...wa%27s%20Jitte
It's not the only example by far, I just went for the low hanging fruit.