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  1. #801
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikey View Post
    Championing social justice is bad?
    How did you get to that from this:

    she has done very manipulative things for self promotion using the internet in the past all under the guise of social justice

  2. #802
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    A part of this controversy we might be overlooking is that some gamers feel that members of the video game media are championing social justice issues to an extreme that is unnecessary. I think that it is a reasonable discussion to have.

    An example not related to Zoe Quinn because sheesh we don't need more Zoe Quinn.
    http://orogion.deviantart.com/journa...late-380891149
    The other part I don't want to even comment on as I haven't seen any "body of evidence" that isn't wild speculation, conjeture or just angry people spieling bile.

  3. #803
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Look man I'm not trying to say that social justice is bad. I'm simply pointing out that there is censorship happening under the guise of social justice. I'm talking about that article, they made a game that featured boob plates and midriff and were threatened with receiving no coverage because of it. Video game media should cover video games.

    There is a fine line, sometimes it gets crossed. I'm not saying we should just forget about social issues, I'm just saying things shouldn't be censored or ignored because it breaks a member of the media's moral code or whatever. If they want to write about it in an opinion piece that's fine in fact I support that.

  4. #804
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    Look man I'm not trying to say that social justice is bad. I'm simply pointing out that there is censorship happening under the guise of social justice. I'm talking about that article, they made a game that featured boob plates and midriff and were threatened with receiving no coverage because of it. Video game media should cover video games.
    There is a fine line, sometimes it gets crossed. I'm not saying we should just forget about social issues, I'm just saying things shouldn't be censored or ignored because it breaks a member of the media's moral code or whatever. If they want to write about it in an opinion piece that's fine in fact I support that.

    Or maybe it's time the media started to impose certain standars. I'm certain that there is a lot of sites that can cover any range of games, boob armour and all. If certain media outlets think that those things are troublesome they're in their right to not to cover them, there is certainly no censorship since there are other outlets that can cover, they're just exercising their right to not talk about those things.
    There is no law that forces them to cover news "objectively". All media editors its content to align it with their views and to appeal to their readers. I expect RPS to be mindful of those issues when covering games and I'm certainly glad they're standing their ground on the issue.

  5. #805
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    Look man I'm not trying to say that social justice is bad. I'm simply pointing out that there is censorship happening under the guise of social justice. I'm talking about that article, they made a game that featured boob plates and midriff and were threatened with receiving no coverage because of it. Video game media should cover video games.
    That's pretty silly. As far as I know media can pretty much decide for themselves what topics and games they want to cover. Why should anyone be entitled to get coverage at all? I mean, if the game is fun, has an interesting mechanics or carries an interesting message it'll get covered anyway. It's not as if other games that included sexual/sexist/stupid content didn't get coverage in the past - and get called out for that.

  6. #806
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikey View Post
    Or maybe it's time the media started to impose certain standars.
    The media is a watch dog of the industry, they should be pointing things out not ignoring or censoring. Ignoring and censoring will only make things worse.

    I'm certain that there is a lot of sites that can cover any range of games, boob armour and all. If certain media outlets think that those things are troublesome they're in their right to not to cover them, there is certainly no censorship since there are other outlets that can cover, they're just exercising their right to not talk about those things.
    The issue I have with this is that it lowers the standards of journalism. We don't like it so therefore we wont cover it. Sure they have a right to not cover things, but in my opinion it should be exercised based on a degree of importance rather than social issues.

    There is no law that forces them to cover news "objectively". All media editors its content to align it with their views and to appeal to their readers. I expect RPS to be mindful of those issues when covering games and I'm certainly glad they're standing their ground on the issue.
    There is no law about objectivity you are right, but it is a matter of principle. They SHOULD cover things as objectively as possible because that is their obligation to the readers.

    All these things you are saying seem really nice when it comes to ideas you support, but the moment you become marginalized you will be upset.

  7. #807
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squiz View Post
    That's pretty silly. As far as I know media can pretty much decide for themselves what topics and games they want to cover. Why should anyone be entitled to get coverage at all? I mean, if the game is fun, has an interesting mechanics or carries an interesting message it'll get covered anyway. It's not as if other games that included sexual/sexist/stupid content didn't get coverage in the past - and get called out for that.
    It's not about people being entitle to coverage, it's about journalists not covering things based on their own personal beliefs. If a huge industry changing game came out but one outlet doesn't cover it because they disagree with something in it they are not upholding their charge as an objective and reliable media outlet.

  8. #808
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    Social Justice Warrior is the ironic way to describe people fighting for what is political correct, abusing to others, acting like bullies.

    Social justice is good, having to fight for social justice is bad, ... that has nothing to do with the group of bullies that we on the internet are called SJW.

  9. #809
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Grizzly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    It's not about people being entitle to coverage, it's about journalists not covering things based on their own personal beliefs. If a huge industry changing game came out but one outlet doesn't cover it because they disagree with something in it they are not upholding their charge as an objective and reliable media outlet.
    This assumes that in this situation there is anything worth covering. The angry post of an angry ex really is not worth covering.


  10. #810
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    All these things you are saying seem really nice when it comes to ideas you support, but the moment you become marginalized you will be upset.
    And who's being marginalized because of social justice?

    The only things we're talking about being ignored is things that we can safely say they're wrong or damaging to society. We're talking about having a moral standard regarding what's being reported and that's perfectly fine by me. It's not censoring it's sending a message saying "we don't want this kind of stuff here, this is a safe place for people who are tired of this crap" and that nice message it's why I come here instead of any other gaming site, and that's why I'm glad these journalist are true to their beliefs when reporting. Objectivity, besides not existing, it's quite overrated.

  11. #811
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzly View Post
    This assumes that in this situation there is anything worth covering. The angry post of an angry ex really is not worth covering.
    You're out of context, I'm talking about this article.
    http://orogion.deviantart.com/journa...late-380891149

  12. #812
    Activated Node seshFriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tikey View Post
    And who's being marginalized because of social justice?

    The only things we're talking about being ignored is things that we can safely say they're wrong or damaging to society. We're talking about having a moral standard regarding what's being reported and that's perfectly fine by me. It's not censoring it's sending a message saying "we don't want this kind of stuff here, this is a safe place for people who are tired of this crap" and that nice message it's why I come here instead of any other gaming site, and that's why I'm glad these journalist are true to their beliefs when reporting. Objectivity, besides not existing, it's quite overrated.
    In this case it's developers being marginalized. If you want to ignore things you don't like that's great. Don't read those articles.

    I think that even video game journalists should hold themselves to journalism ethics and standards.
    From Wikipedia
    truthfulness, accuracy, objectivity, impartiality, fairness and public accountability

  13. #813
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    So in the usual way of shitstorms, it seems that this one has picked a new target over night. The new target, probably to the joy of QC, seems to be TotalBiscuit. Explicitely for what he wrote here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s4nmr1

    Some of the choice replies he got in response:
    https://twitter.com/ADAMATOMIC/statu...06257583779841
    Phil Fish also dropped a few things, before quickly hiding his profile again:
    http://i.imgur.com/fL6drnP.png

    Along with people calling TB a Nazi and similar nice words. The battlefield has basically been shifted towards TBs Twitter.

  14. #814
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    In this case it's developers being marginalized. If you want to ignore things you don't like that's great. Don't read those articles.
    I'd say that's shunning bad behaviour instead of marginalize. But the result is pretty much the same even if the connotations are different. In the end is a media group not wanting to promote behaviour that they think is inappropriate.

    Quote Originally Posted by seshFriend View Post
    I think that even video game journalists should hold themselves to journalism ethics and standards.
    From Wikipedia
    Well, it'd be nice if any journalist held themselves to journalist ethics and standards (hello Fox news and the like) I think that (at least in RPS) you see people holding a pretty good stance on ethics. Not covering a story to avoid promotion bad behaviour seems like a pretty important ethical stance and doesn't break any of those standards, at least not the ones that matter, because if you're talking about objectivity and impartiality I'm one of those persons that believe that those doesn't exist in the real world.


    Also, Phil Fish always amazes me, you can't deny he puts on a good show.

  15. #815
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    Whos Total Biscuit anyway? hes not even part of the San Francisco aristocracy.

  16. #816
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I get the feeling that Phil Fish's comments on TB are in jest.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

    Steam ID

  17. #817
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sakkura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theForged View Post
    So in the usual way of shitstorms, it seems that this one has picked a new target over night. The new target, probably to the joy of QC, seems to be TotalBiscuit. Explicitely for what he wrote here: http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1s4nmr1

    Some of the choice replies he got in response:
    https://twitter.com/ADAMATOMIC/statu...06257583779841
    Phil Fish also dropped a few things, before quickly hiding his profile again:
    http://i.imgur.com/fL6drnP.png

    Along with people calling TB a Nazi and similar nice words. The battlefield has basically been shifted towards TBs Twitter.
    Who is Adam Atomic and does he make anything remotely worth reviewing anyway? Judging from that comment I would guess no.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sakkura View Post
    Who is Adam Atomic and does he make anything remotely worth reviewing anyway? Judging from that comment I would guess no.
    The two things I know off are Canabalt, which supposedly started the whole endless runner genre and he's also responsible for the original incarnation of Flixel, a tool for Flash Game Developers of sorts. Supposedly he's also being involved with the animations for Fez. To be honest I only really know of him from my time lurking at Tigsource a few years back and there he was involed in all manner of community projects, community meetings and stuff like that.
    He used to be in the in-crowd. I really don't know what he's goind nowadays. Apart from threatening to abuse DMCA to spite someone.

  19. #819
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    It's a long standing policy of RPS that they do videogames journalism. They don't do videogames journalism journalism.
    You must of missed Doritosgate.
    Why yes you're right I'm deliciously evil

    Tradition is the tyranny of dead men

    Steam:Kadayi Origin: Kadayi GFWL: Kadayi

    Probable Replicant

    *blush* I'm flattered by the attention boys, but please let's not make the thread about liddle old me


    Quote Originally Posted by Finicky View Post
    Kadayi will remain the worst poster on the interwebs.
    Gifmaster 4000 2014 Year of the Gif

    Their early work was a little too new wave for my tastes....

  20. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kadayi View Post
    You must of missed Doritosgate.
    Are you sure you didn't? Because that very article re-stated the policy I just referenced.

    Were posting about this story now not because any new developments have occurred, but because it seems not posting about it was causing us more accusations than we can stand to listen to. We had previously considered the story to be one of internal wrangling amongst games journalism, and RPS is primarily about games. While we certainly do cover stories about the media, these tend to be about the representation or misrepresentation of games or gamers. So personally considering it a matter not directly within our remit, I chose to write about it on my personal blog (here, here and here). (I link it here because its relevant I can assure you that with no adverts on the site, I get no benefit whatsoever from directing traffic there. Also, the opinions stated there are entirely my own, and not necessarily shared by RPS.)

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