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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossignol View Post
    Don't talk nonsense, Deano. You are well aware that's not the case. The thread had run its course, as so many others. I fully appreciate people's annoyance with trolls and bigots being given a platform, and bans and thread closures will continue as a means to police that.
    Like I said in the paragraph immediately following the one you quoted: I might know that, given my knowledge of what's going on here. The average person visiting the forums for the first time won't know that.

    I'm all for bans, more bans, more regular bans, temp bans while something gets sorted out. I'm also all for how the comments are managed on the front-page, with straight up deletion of offensive posts.

    But I don't see the point of a thread closure. Pretty much ever. If a thread has run its course, then banning the people arguing nonsense will cause it to die naturally anyway. You ban the un-excellent posters, and the thread can return to being excellent.

    Unless discussions on controversial topics can just never be excellent by definition, in which case just say we're not allowed to have them.

    People here have actual legitimate concerns around this community, and frankly are far more invested in it than you are. And to be honest a lot of those concerns stem from people here no longer wanting to put up with casual misogyny, homophobia and racism here. To call it out when they see it and demand something be done about. And the reason they might be doing that, is probably in large part because you're rightly making such a big deal about tackling these topics in gaming head on, on the main blog. You're actually changing minds, influencing opinions, getting people to give a crap about the state of gaming and the online communities around it.

    But when people react to these things in the way you want them to, on your own forums, they're met with silence and locked threads. To the have the first public statement an admin has actually made on those issues to be to dismiss them as 'bickering' and to shut down the conversation is a bit of a kick in the teeth.

    Were people making this much of a fuss about these topics on the Bioware forums or the WoW forums, and demanding something be done, you'd likely be writing about it being a positive movement in gaming. You'd be talking about the 'silence' from the companies involved if they didn't engage with it. And rightly so.

    And I'm not saying there's an easy solution, I'm not saying it's a quick fix and you should just sort it out. I'm not even saying you should hire a community manager because that money could be spent on hiring a new full-time Cara...err... writer. But maybe take half an hour to let people know that you're trying and to engage just a little? Rather than just float over the whole thing with an air of superiority and dismiss us all as just whining.

  2. #362
    Network Hub Nahru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    But when people react to these things in the way you want them to, on your own forums, they're met with silence and locked threads.
    Except those people do not react in a way He wants them to.

  3. #363
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post

    People here have actual legitimate concerns around this community, and frankly are far more invested in it than you are. And to be honest a lot of those concerns stem from people here no longer wanting to put up with casual misogyny, homophobia and racism here. To call it out when they see it and demand something be done about. And the reason they might be doing that, is probably in large part because you're rightly making such a big deal about tackling these topics in gaming head on, on the main blog. You're actually changing minds, influencing opinions, getting people to give a crap about the state of gaming and the online communities around it.

    But when people react to these things in the way you want them to, on your own forums, they're met with silence and locked threads. To the have the first public statement an admin has actually made on those issues to be to dismiss them as 'bickering' and to shut down the conversation is a bit of a kick in the teeth.
    These threads tend to be locked not because people are sexist or misogynist and by locking it you punish the ones that arent, but it tends to attract an atmosphere where all of a sudden, you see sexist remarks in pretty much anything.

    Not that Im saying some werent saying it and we shouldnt be exact, but you end up edging against the people that arent really making any statements against anything, just trying to be logical about certain things.

    Again, down with the -ist arseholes, but some threads just breed arseholery and dont really add much in the form of discussion. Its mostly one slew of users agreeing to something anyhow, and another slew calling people fags, in a nice way.

    However, that being said, you say there is a discussion to be had, please, start a discussion and I promise you, I will watch over it and prune the shit out of it, but you have to let me know which thread.

    Also, Nahru, I dont like you. Id very much prefer to be very unexcellent to you, but I wont.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

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  4. #364
    Network Hub Nahru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Also, Nahru, I dont like you. Id very much prefer to be very unexcellent to you, but I wont.
    Not that I care, but why do You repeatedly state these things? I do not like You too, so there is that - quite inconsequential now, is it not?

  5. #365
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    I had to state something, thats why. Id rather I said that than just call you something.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  6. #366
    Network Hub Nahru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    I had to state something, thats why. Id rather I said that than just call you something.
    You did not have to state anything. And You have already expressed Your disliking of me, and I understood it the first time, so no need to repeat it - perhaps You could refute my claims instead, or something. Which is why it amuses me that You feel the need to tell me how You dislike me, as if it means anything to anyone except to You or that it has any value regarding whatever we were (or we were not) talking about.

    But fine, I may have wasted my effort to write this post anyway, think and speak whatever suits You (You are mindful of rules at least).

  7. #367
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Im not jesus though, so dont capital letter me :D

    No but I would like to explain further; a lot of people or things enrage me sometimes and I have to act on that. id rather much act after taking a step back than not act at all.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  8. #368
    Network Hub Nahru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Im not jesus though, so dont capital letter me :D
    I am not that much into grammar rules, especially since English is not my native language, but I do tend to capitalize EDIT - forget this part, I may later edit it back. Yeah, forget it, I do not know this...

    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    No but I would like to explain further; a lot of people or things enrage me sometimes and I have to act on that. id rather much act after taking a step back than not act at all.
    First, you do not have to do anything (I guess we can disagree about this). About anything. However, you can and should do something, depending on the situation. The rest is your choice (acting after stepping back thing).

    ....

    I think we have derailed this thread enough?

    I do like the new RPS blog layout, much more than the (in my opinion) dull previous iteration. If only you (RPS staff) could somehow "fix" that issue when logging in to reply, and it directs one to the front page, instead to where one intends (the article in question, with comment box ready to be typed in).
    Last edited by Nahru; 19-09-2013 at 11:19 AM. Reason: because of grammar nightmare

  9. #369
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus c-Row's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahru2 View Post
    I do like the new RPS blog layout, much more than the (in my opinion) dull previous iteration. If only you (RPS staff) could somehow "fix" that issue when logging in to reply, and it directs one to the front page, instead to where one intends (the article in question, with comment box ready to be typed in).
    Oh God Yes! That's been around since what feels like forever.
    - If the sound of Samuel Barber's "Adagio For Strings" makes you think of Kharak burning instead of the Vietnamese jungle, most of your youth happened during the 90s. -

  10. #370
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    Again, down with the -ist arseholes, but some threads just breed arseholery and dont really add much in the form of discussion. Its mostly one slew of users agreeing to something anyhow, and another slew calling people fags, in a nice way.
    We have six locked threads and two banned posters. This is not a good ratio.
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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  11. #371
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    We have six locked threads and two banned posters. This is not a good ratio.
    Again, it doesnt matter if the discussion is useless. What was the point beyond the first post?

    And in order to prove that: make a thread that isnt about how shitty RPS is handling these posts, but with actual content. Let me, or even better Anthile, know, and I promise it wont get locked.

    Unless it proves that there is no real discussion hence no real reason to get excited really when it gets locked after mostly back and forth between the ists.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  12. #372
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuantaCat View Post
    And in order to prove that: make a thread that isnt about how shitty RPS is handling these posts, but with actual content. Let me, or even better Anthile, know, and I promise it wont get locked.

    Unless it proves that there is no real discussion hence no real reason to get excited really when it gets locked after mostly back and forth between the ists.
    1) Fuck you for insinuating that I need your permission to make a thread.

    2) We're not supposed to be discussing RPS on the RPS subforum?

    3) So ban the -ists. Is that really so fucking hard?
    Nalano H. Wildmoon
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    "His lack of education is more than compensated for by his keenly developed moral bankruptcy." - Woody Allen

  13. #373
    Vector Jams O'Donnell's Avatar
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    You often make good points Nalano -- I'm sure you're capable of making them without resorting to "fuck you," which I think we can all agree is not a particularly excellent piece of phrasing.

  14. #374
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    1) Fuck you for insinuating that I need your permission to make a thread.

    2) We're not supposed to be discussing RPS on the RPS subforum?

    3) So ban the -ists. Is that really so fucking hard?
    1) no, I dont believe you can make a thread that has a proper discussion about those topics that generally bring out the ists instead of just polarising and subsequent pooslinging. Please prove me wrong that there can be a meaningful discussion that brings new views and content to the table.
    If you thought I was insinuating anything, you might be paranoid.

    2) You should only discuss matters RPS on the RPS subforum. but the matters that were discussed are just that: discussed. nothing more to say, much more to do. so get on with it.

    3) yes. moho, hamster and someone else was banned. some on the way to getting there, but its gotten rather quiet since we announced banning for being slightly -ist. Theres one Im suspicious of, but I cant prove anything yet.

    4) let me make a point: I know the picking out "offenders" and keeping threads clean is sortof the mods job, but I dont think those threads can stay clean on either side, so why bother at all with one of these and not just lock it? like I said, prove it, and I will happily change my mind about it, while Ill regardless try to keep the mods getting rid of idiot-ists.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  15. #375
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kadayi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nalano View Post
    1) Fuck you for insinuating that I need your permission to make a thread.

    2) We're not supposed to be discussing RPS on the RPS subforum?

    3) So ban the -ists. Is that really so fucking hard?



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  16. #376
    Administrator Rossignol's Avatar
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    Nalano: You'd rather I banned more widely than closed threads? I can do that, but it seems way harsher.

  17. #377
    Administrator Rossignol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    People here have actual legitimate concerns around this community, and frankly are far more invested in it than you are.
    Understood. Although I would say claiming that anyone is more invested in this website that me might be muddling the truth somewhat.

    And I'm happy to answer questions.

  18. #378
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rossignol View Post
    Nalano: You'd rather I banned more widely than closed threads? I can do that, but it seems way harsher.
    That's one of the points we (and especially Deano) have been trying to make: closing threads, in a way, punishes *everyone* involved in the threads - even the good posters who were having decent discussions. Banning people punishes only the banned people. Better to get rid (even if with temp bans) of the trolls who hinder discussions and to let the discussions continue than to stop all discussion.
    Last edited by Faldrath; 19-09-2013 at 04:31 PM.

  19. #379
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Unaco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
    Banning people punishes only the banned people.
    But, it's also a much more extreme punishment.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    I just have an opinion different to your own. Circle jerking is good for no one, be glad somebody isn't afraid to disagree with women on the internet.
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  20. #380
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Faldrath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unaco View Post
    But, it's also a much more extreme punishment.
    Agreed. The choice is between punishing everyone a little or punishing a few people a lot. Not a pleasant one. But I believe that, if judiciously applied, the latter is more helpful for the community in the long run.

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