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  1. #641
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    The sun ascends.
    The sky brightens.
    Nathan is troubled by the existence of a woman in a game.

    It's exactly the kind of vacant, non-story, hullabaloo that tastes sour to people who would otherwise be receptive to RPS' position on these kinds of issues.

  2. #642
    Lesser Hivemind Node Velko's Avatar
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    And the comments and forums are once again filled with people complaining about RPS writing about women. And people complaining about those complaints. And other people complaining about the whole debate. And me pointing out this.

    The caravan travels, the dogs bark.*


    *does this work in English?

  3. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velko View Post
    The caravan travels, the dogs bark.*


    *does this work in English?
    I like it. It is acceptable.

    In seriousness though, I hope that RPS is not outright ignoring the criticism that I and others are making here. I am not telling anybody to stop writing about gender inequality in games. I'm not asking "Durr hurr but wut about teh mens". I can only ask that the writers practice some restraint or focus instead of blindly firing at anything that remotely resembles mistreatment of women. Even when they're not dropping full salvos of heat on companies for these perceived slights, there are regular insinuations (read: assumptions) of nefarious business afoot. And too often it feels like both the writers and some readers just dismiss legitimate criticisms with "Oh no, here comes the MRA brigade, just stop reading."

    I didn't care much for their coverage of AC4's lack of playable women, but I understood there to be some valid concerns at the heart of the matter. Sexism is absolutely tangled up in that issue on some level. Where I get lost is when I read pieces like Grayson's on the new R6 game. Or when John Walker has a disproportionate freakout at a Call of Duty commercial. Or when they bite at PAX for having "safe zones" and suspend coverage while attending E3, of all places. It's jumping the gun when a second review of these things reveals that they are more nuanced that they initially seemed or really not bad at all.

    The signal/noise ratio needs improvement, is all.
    Last edited by Distec; 24-06-2014 at 09:36 PM.

  4. #644
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Sketch's Avatar
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    He definitely had a point regarding their reasoning for using a woman for the demo. At least discussing it seems reasonable. But I do feel slightly sorry for Ubisoft in that in terms of representation of people other than white males they're actually by far one of the better companies. They've made mistakes, that's absolutely certain, but I think we should be as willing to praise the good as condemn the bad.
    steam: sketch

  5. #645
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus SirKicksalot's Avatar
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    I feel dirty for giving the article a click but I just had to see it for myself.

    Anyway the Ubisoft developer shouldn't have explained the reason for having a woman as the hostage.
    I mean, the reason is good. The hostages should be likeable and provoke a strong emotional response - it ups the stakes for one team and makes the other one feel more like desperate villains.
    Right now it's better if as a developer you shut the fuck up. Ubisoft just keeps stumbling from one blunder into another because everything they say regarding gender, race and sexual preferences for Unity, Far Cry and R6 gets twisted and interpreted as "troubling".

    Making a realistic and likeable character is "troubling", "disappointing", makes the author "wary". Showing what's probably the most complete and one of the best characters built for this role is the result of "archaic mentalities".

    Nice job ignoring the female sniper by the way.

  6. #646
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus alms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirKicksalot View Post
    Anyway the Ubisoft developer shouldn't have explained the reason for having a woman as the hostage.
    I mean, the reason is good. The hostages should be likeable and provoke a strong emotional response - it ups the stakes for one team and makes the other one feel more like desperate villains.
    Strong emotional response? the hostage is little more than a companion cube with a set of pre-recorded screams. It is being thrown around like an object.

    And why anyone would need the hostage to be a woman to evoke any kind of response. Should male objects (honest typo there) just be left to their own devices? (half the women in the sample replied "hell yes they deserve it" to this question)

    Quote Originally Posted by Velko View Post
    The caravan travels, the dogs bark.
    The blackbirds sing at dawn, and dusk
    (and yeah during the day and at night too, they just seem to like the singing part a lot)

    ...and beings who would like to pass for real people only remember to sign up to the forums to share their indignation for this and that and asking content to be pulled (seriously? seriously.)
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  7. #647
    I just registered, when can I make a new thread?

  8. #648
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegrasshopper View Post
    I just registered, when can I make a new thread?
    If its for your game/kickstarter project or youtube channel you can put it in here. If it's anything else you need ten posts before you're allowed make a thread.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  9. #649
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    Quote Originally Posted by alms View Post
    And why anyone would need the hostage to be a woman to evoke any kind of response. Should male objects (honest typo there) just be left to their own devices? (half the women in the sample replied "hell yes they deserve it" to this question)
    Well, that's how we've been mentally wired for ages. Furthermore, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong, cynical, or degrading about that. I know that the sight of a woman in distress prompts a visceral reaction from me, distinct from one a male would elicit. It's important we acknowledge that emotional responses to such depictions have their limits and place; not every woman is a victim in need of saving and my reaction is a product of instinct. But is it really so terrible to even acknowledge thus?

    I don't think anybody needs the female to be a hostage, but that's what they chose for their ten minutes of gameplay, and so what. Regardless of the decision-making process that went into it, the end result in the trailer is a hostage that happens to be female. Hostages are inherently vulnerable and under threat. Is there anything else in the footage that is cause for alarm? Anything at all? I am genuinely curious.

    I could understand how somebody may have a quibble with it. I personally think this is very inoffensive, but I won't tell others how to feel. What I don't appreciate in the article is how the author uses this one arguable point to launch into an assumption that the game itself has "archaic mentalities" behind it; how he completely ignores the other female presented in the video in order to make his point; how he takes an opportunity to link back to the same AC4 controversy article twice (in case you forgot about it). It reads like he really just wanted to express even more disappointment at Ubisoft, and the new R6 game just offered a convenient opening. The hostage tech is practically glossed over.

    It really gives off the impression that there was some selective filtering going on. It also tells me that you can find boogeymen anywhere and everywhere when you're actively looking for them. It was the same routine when the Cyberpunk trailer came out and Nathan practically put CDP on trial for the way they depicted a woman. It's unwarranted and reduces the inclination to listen in the future. And it's exactly what I'm talking about when I say I take issue with how and what they write, not what they write about per se.
    Last edited by Distec; 25-06-2014 at 02:00 PM.

  10. #650
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    Slightly confused as to why comments are off on the Age Of Empires Online shutdown article? I can understand on the eSports one, did Nathan just forget to switch the default option back over or is there some huge controversy I'm not aware of?

  11. #651
    Network Hub FurryLippedSquid's Avatar
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    And the latest one. Fine for the Blizzard article.

    I've emailed him.
    Last edited by FurryLippedSquid; 04-07-2014 at 12:21 PM.

  12. #652
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Squiz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by deano2099 View Post
    Slightly confused as to why comments are off on the Age Of Empires Online shutdown article? I can understand on the eSports one, did Nathan just forget to switch the default option back over or is there some huge controversy I'm not aware of?
    I came here to ask the exact same question. A bit baffling as I cannot make out any inflammatory potential in these topics.

  13. #653
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    was it all nathan? He might have some mail spam now then.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  14. #654
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    Yeah. I imagine the back end CMS saves the last setting for comments (on/off) on a per user basis, and he just forgot to turn them back on after turning them off for the women in tournaments article.

  15. #655
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    So, there's been a commenter with the username: "Never Relax Around Japs" for a while now. On the main site, not the forum.
    I'd have thought that wasn't acceptable.

  16. #656
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Jesus_Phish's Avatar
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    I dunno if this is temporary or not but whatever is going on with the "whats new?" page is horrible looking.
    "Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

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  17. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesus_Phish View Post
    I dunno if this is temporary or not but whatever is going on with the "whats new?" page is horrible looking.
    I thought I was going mad and had hit the wrong button. Maybe its a meta move by John to go with his steam new releases article.

  18. #658
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Hmmm. Its still there just a tiny button called new posts. Someone fucked with the forum defaults.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  19. #659
    Moderator QuantaCat's Avatar
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    Jim just told me the forum is getting an upgrade, should be fixed asap.
    - Tom De Roeck.

    verse publications & The Shopkeeper, an interactive short.

    "Quantacat's name is still recognised even if he watches on with detached eyes like Peter Molyneux over a cube in 3D space, staring at it with tears in his eyes, softly whispering... Someday they'll get it."

  20. #660
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Tikey's Avatar
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