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  1. #21
    Network Hub Hanban's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    To be fair, I said hold your own, not bring it down :(
    Sloppy reading on my part, sorry!
    BobHound - EVE Online

  2. #22
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    Blackcompany, I have to say that I was in the same boat as you were a while ago. I tried desperately to like eve. I tried a trial acct 2 or 3 times before it finally stuck. The only way that it stuck for me is that I got into RPSH. It became a completely different game at that point. What most people don't understand is that CCP didn't make a game, they made a set of tools. Those tools allow you to create whatever you want to and can convince other people to do.

    As hanban said before, eve is whatever you put into it. I think the reason why so many themepark mmo vets bounce off of EVE is that aren't used to having to create their own fun. They are used to having their fun delivered to them in nice convenient bite sized chunks for them to casually consume. Eve is not nice. It doesn't give a flying fuck about your fun. Eve just exists. It is completely up to you to get something out of the game. If that doesn't interest you, then EVE really isn't for you. That being said, eve exists as a majestic tapestry of interwoven interactions. Pretty much anything you can think of, you can do in game. Create a consortium to control the most valuable resource in the game? It's called OTEC. Run scams worth thousands of USD? That's called Tuesday. Become a feared pewer of the in-the-face variety? People pay you for advice. You can literally create whatever kind of experience you want, but the point is YOU have to create it.

    And as far as RPSH goes, fast forward to today and I'm running the place. Most certainly not what I was expecting when I got involved here. If any of this sounds like it might be something you would enjoy, look us up in game at the "RPS Community " channel, or shoot me a pm in these forums. If you haven't already subscribed I can hook you up with an extended trial if you want. Hopefully I'll see you in there.

  3. #23
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    As Bob said, missions are not a whole lot of fun. If you prefer the PvE aspect of MMOs then there are certainly better games out there than Eve. Missions are a decent way of making isk - and there are plenty of other, more interesting and involving ways to do that - but they are only a means to an end; the real appeal of the game for me and many others is the Pvp.

    What you say about skill training is true to an extent; you're not going to be able to jump in a well-equipped battleship right off the bat. But being able to fly a frigate in pvp doesn't take long, and frigates are cheap, fun and always welcome in fleets.

    As others have said it's hard going it alone in Eve, especially when starting out. If you feel like persevering join the 'RPS Community' chat channel in game and say hello, we'll help you out.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoarr View Post
    And as far as RPSH goes, fast forward to today and I'm running the place.
    All hail lord Megathron!

    I think the thing with Eve is that it doesn't care about you. It's like life in the sense that whatever it is you want to do, you SUCK at it and it throws that in your face until you actually improve. That's one of the reasons that so many players get frustrated and leave - we're just not used to playing a game that constantly disproves our ideas of how awesome we are.

    And improving doesn't take 2 hours of playing the game in a lazy sunday afternoon.

    Improving means having people to teach you and dying a lot (if you're into PVP), or risking a shitload of money (if you're in production), or ending up with a stock of useless shield extenders because you bought them "cheap" without knowing how to read the market graphs and didn't notice the price was being manipulated.

    Also, regarding how new players can't participate in events that shape the game world, that's not true. There's a story somewhere about a scanner frigate that aggroed a capital or supercapital ship while it was logging off; queue cavalry landing and someone discovering the next day they didn't have a mammoth ship anymore. Hero tacklers challenge that misconception daily as well. And let's not forget how yours truly developed a backyard system into a small but butling market within 3 months of game, supplying our own dudes along with other residents and people passing through.

    So yeah Eve is awesome, just don't do it solo.

  5. #25
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Aside: What the shit is all this about EVE being a spreadsheet game?

    It is like that only for a few. The rest of us just ask shove stuff on our ships that is fun or recommended and go out and blow things up and then get blown up.

    All this min maxing crap is for the few. All the trading shite is for the few. The rest of us buy what we need and then have our pew pew.

    Certain bits of interface look a bit spreadsheet-y. But then so does any inventory system built upon a grid...
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  6. #26
    Network Hub Hanban's Avatar
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    What you say about skill training is true to an extent; you're not going to be able to jump in a well-equipped battleship right off the bat.
    It should also be noted that this is not without reason. Being able to fly a battleship is nice and all, but even if you put all your skill points towards battleships and sit in one as quick as you can, chances are you'll see your pod in the dark void of space before you have a chance to take anything down with those huge guns. Huge ships are for many the end-game. Once you've invested a fair bit of time into the game you can fly them competently and do neat things with them. But then again, some people never leave their frigates and find their enjoyments roaming nul-sec in ships not too different from the ones they started in.

    EVE. Losing is fun.
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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickygor View Post
    To be fair, I said hold your own, not bring it down :(
    You can bring down most pvp fit battleships in a frigate. They're usually buffer tanked and only have a flight of drones and a web.

    The thing is, nobody is stupid enough to fly a battleship without support unless it's one of the few who can break away from tacklers, for precisely the reason stated above.

    Eve is a social game first and foremost. If you're playing it to run missions, you're going to have a really miserable time and I'd recommend you save yourself the hassle and quit. PvE simply isn't Eve's strong suit at all. If you're looking for PvE, you'll be disappointed.

    By the way, grind is entirely optional. There's money everywhere, there are corp/alliance reimbursements, there's trading, there's scamming. Grinding is a menial task you do when you're out of ideas.

    And no, Eve is not like Wow. Wow is all about pve with pvp being terrible. Eve is the polar opposite in just about any design philosophy.

  8. #28
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    Aye, latest MMOs have added many basically anti social features (WoW: Raid Finder, Dungeon Finder, cross realm pvp) out of convincing and giving quicker gratification for those on a short time limit. Classic and Burning Crusade were very social and great. Now its just click a button, get your 30-45 instance in without saying a word. Sure it saves time but the game does not feel like a MMO much anymore.

    EVE is EVE and a big part of it is working with others.

  9. #29
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Hypernetic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moraven View Post
    Aye, latest MMOs have added many basically anti social features (WoW: Raid Finder, Dungeon Finder, cross realm pvp) out of convincing and giving quicker gratification for those on a short time limit. Classic and Burning Crusade were very social and great. Now its just click a button, get your 30-45 instance in without saying a word. Sure it saves time but the game does not feel like a MMO much anymore.

    EVE is EVE and a big part of it is working with others.
    Not to discount the EvE part of your argument, because I agree with it, but your memory of TBC is pretty hazy.

    Here is the social nature of running a dungeon in TBC:

    1) Spam trade/general for an hour looking for people.
    2) Find everything but a tank or healer.
    3) Spam for a tank or healer for 40 minutes.
    4) Find tank/healer.
    5) DPS left because they didn't want to wait.
    6) Find more DPS, tank says "I have to go soon".
    7) Find everyone you need, start dungeon.
    8) Stand at the entrance of the dungeon waiting for your AFK healer.
    9) *idle chat* nobody cares and wants to get their dungeon done.
    10) you finally start the dungeon, you kill the first boss and the tank says "sorry guys I gotta go".
    11) repeat from step 1.


    The social nature of raiding can be summed up pretty quickly.

    Guild: "Are you attuned?"
    Applicant: "no."
    Guild: "gtfo".
    Last edited by Hypernetic; 13-06-2012 at 02:03 AM.

  10. #30
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    Some very good points here about EVE. In the past week of playing the game I have learned some valuable lessons:

    -Faction Warfare sucks for new players
    -Never, ever let anyone convince you that Defensive Plexing is "Perfectly Safe, Trust me." In fact, never let anyone convince you that anything in EVE is perfectly safe. Period. Because its not.
    -Never fly a ship you cannot afford to lose
    -Navy Frigates look better on paper
    -Don't play solo
    -Assumimg PVE is safe and easy in low sec because it was safe and easy in high sec, is a bad idea.

    In truth I want to like EVE so bad its killing me. I love the real risk. I lost two ships this week but that's ok. I liked the fact that I gambled, dodged a Thrasher, tried to be clever by going deeper into the system instead of out and got my ass kicked for that bit of clever (its called 'Local Channel for a reason) and that the loss cost me. I am beyond tired of 'death and reload/respawn.' EVE definitely addresses the real risk for real reward aspect I have searched for.

    I will give it another try this week, probably on toward Friday/Saturday. I will look RPS. I have a couple of solid Frigates and can tackle pretty well. Well enough to end up a Hero in a rocket-powered casket I figure.

    I am also very interested in getting into the player-driven parts of the world. I know there is more going on than I have seen. Probably far more, in fact. Undoubtedly far more. And I would like to experience a great deal of that before I make a final decision.

    So thanks for the words. Truth is, I think I like to let EVE abuse the crap out of me. Because it certainly punishes cocky decisions like thinking you can run a Thrasher all over a system while flying a Tristan and not get spanked.

  11. #31
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Kelron's Avatar
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    Sounds like you're warming to Eve a bit. There's a couple of things I'd like to say.

    1. You're attributing some things to skill points (or lack of) which are at least as reliant on player experience. Eve has a steep learning curve, and the advantage of a veteran player is as much knowledge of the game as time spent training skills. The skill system also has heavily diminishing returns and many independent branches, you'll find older players tend to be able to fly a wider range of ships but won't necessarily be able to fly a specific ship much more effectively than newer players.

    2. Talk to people. I'm sure the RPS corp will be happy to help you out, but also talk to people you meet in game. Even the ones that kill you. Some of them will be jerks, but there's a lot of friendly and helpful players in Eve. As long as you're not ranting and swearing at them, the nasty pirate who just killed you may be willing to help out a new player and give you some tips.

    3. It sounds trite, but Eve really is what you make of it. Think of something you'd like to do in game. Do you want to be a pirate, a ship builder, a fleet commander? If you have a goal you can start working out how to make it happen. Some things you can jump straight in to, some will take more work and training. If you want something that is heavily reliant on training (like being a capital ship pilot), then pick something you can focus on in the short term to keep you entertained.

    A few examples of things you could be doing:

    - Piracy (or faction warfare): I started pirating a few weeks into the game. I used poorly fitted ships, I didn't have much succes, but I was learning and I had fun. It might be worth doing some missions to get a bit of cash, because solo PvP will not be profitable without experience or luck, but work out what ships you can afford to lose a few of, get them ready and go out and try.

    - Fleet combat: numbers are always welcome here. If you can do as you're told and use a microwarpdrive and a warp scrambler, you won't be a liability. I don't enjoy it personally but it's a good way to get some experience in the short term if you want to fly bigger ships in fleets.

    - Trading: If you want to sell popular items in popular market hubs you will need lots of skill training to make a good profit. But in the less saturated markets you don't. Ability to analyse prices and spot gaps in the market is all you need. Experience of the game helps to know what kind of items people buy, but you have market history showing sales quantities and prices. Find something in demand in one region, ship it in from another region where you can buy it cheaply (or make it yourself).

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkFenix View Post
    The only barrier between you and being able to truly enjoy Eve is a social one. Join a corp, they can give you the guidance and help you need to get set up properly (maybe look up the RPS one).
    I suspect you are 100% correct, and had I known there was an RPS corp that might have made all the difference. Instead I joined EUNI (Eve University, I think) which was horrendous. I waited in queue for 3 days for an interview, and in the mean time studied literature I would be tested on. That part was fascinating - jetcanning, tackling, podding, it all sounded even more awesome than I even imagined. My enthusiasm and regurgitation of acronyms and jargon got me enthusiastically accepted into the corp and I was well on my way to explore the cosmos. Then I was told some gigantic corp had declared war on EUNI and it was recommended that I stay safely on our home station until the big boys cleared things up. 3 more days of this extinguished the remainder of my enthusiasm and I quit for good.

    Well, I think I quit for good. I still want to play! SO BADLY! My only barriers are social and PVP. Nothing ruins my good time faster than PVP, and I have to question the longevity of a game that is so hostile to newcomers specifically because they're new and ignorant! There's duelling and then there's outright trolling.

    I've used up every conceivable trial and I have no active subscription. WHY IN THE HELL AM I DOWNLOADING EVE RIGHT NOW?
    Last edited by djbriandamage; 13-06-2012 at 03:29 PM.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoarr View Post
    eve exists as a majestic tapestry of interwoven interactions.
    It's talk like this that prevents me from forgetting about this damned game!!

  14. #34
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Cooper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelron View Post
    2. Talk to people. I'm sure the RPS corp will be happy to help you out, but also talk to people you meet in game. Even the ones that kill you. Some of them will be jerks, but there's a lot of friendly and helpful players in Eve. As long as you're not ranting and swearing at them, the nasty pirate who just killed you may be willing to help out a new player and give you some tips.
    This.

    When I was starting out I began to message everyone who popped me. Especially if I didn't see it coming. Sure, a bunch were just arseholes, but more often than not they were just nice folk who enjoyed a bit of ganking. You'll learn something, some of the time they'll invite you to tag along.

    Two weeks in after starting I got popped even though I had a cloak. Found out that (in retrospect really obvious) you can watch jump gates for flashes to tell when someone comes in. And that if you can do it, you should set waypoints directly ahead of jump gates so that you don't spend time turning towards the next waypoint allowing pirates to lock onto you, but just warp straight off. I then joined those who had just popped me with a webber/scrambler frigate for a bit of pirating. In an afternoon I made 3 times more ISK than I had made in two weeks.
    Quote Originally Posted by CROCONOUGHTKEY
    KING GEORGE IS A FROG
    le BANG~__-MICHEAL FUCK OFF~~__-INTERPOL KNOW YOU WELLBIENG~—
    OFF
    NOT RUSHMORE MOUNTAIN
    KILL WESTON KILL MUST KILLTHEWESTERNINMYHEADDOESN’TEXSIST
    TEXASISDEADINPARISHEWASAMAN..BINGBING.TETTOHEAD.SP ACEOK,TIMEDEADANDSTOPPED1920HOKKAIDO.UNDERSTOODAT1 ONE.
    UNDERSTANDTHISANDFUCKOFFPIRATEBAY.TIMEDOESNTEXSIST FORMEASIMPATEKPHILLPE.
    BANG

  15. #35
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    Step 1 - Join RPSH
    Step 2 - Learn to fly a rifter (depicted below) and obtain access to our forum
    Step 3 - Have fun both in-game and out!


  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbriandamage View Post
    I suspect you are 100% correct, and had I known there was an RPS corp that might have made all the difference. Instead I joined EUNI (Eve University, I think) which was horrendous. I waited in queue for 3 days for an interview, and in the mean time studied literature I would be tested on. That part was fascinating - jetcanning, tackling, podding, it all sounded even more awesome than I even imagined. My enthusiasm and regurgitation of acronyms and jargon got me enthusiastically accepted into the corp and I was well on my way to explore the cosmos. Then I was told some gigantic corp had declared war on EUNI and it was recommended that I stay safely on our home station until the big boys cleared things up. 3 more days of this extinguished the remainder of my enthusiasm and I quit for good.

    Well, I think I quit for good. I still want to play! SO BADLY! My only barriers are social and PVP. Nothing ruins my good time faster than PVP, and I have to question the longevity of a game that is so hostile to newcomers specifically because they're new and ignorant! There's duelling and then there's outright trolling.

    I've used up every conceivable trial and I have no active subscription. WHY IN THE HELL AM I DOWNLOADING EVE RIGHT NOW?
    Well, first about E-Uni.. the "big boys" never solved shit, they just wait till the wardec goes away or pay for it to be lifted. Many dudes complain about that policy.

    When RPSH got a wardec, we went after them and pewed them. All in all in the end we inflicted 1/3 more damage on them than they did on us, which was cool. Of course you can't compare size here, but if you would, we'd look even more awesome because we're quite small and crazy.

    Regarding the longevity of a game like Eve, dude. It's been around since forever. It's surprising what a sandbox filled with sociopaths can become.

    Since you're downloading the client, look us up in the RPS Community in-game chat. You can talk to Hoarr, Bobhound, Tigran, Bahari, Benefacio, Kurp, Gara or his many alts, and many other cool dudes.

    Eve is all about community.

  17. #37
    Secondary Hivemind Nexus Nalano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hypernetic View Post
    Not to discount the EvE part of your argument, because I agree with it, but your memory of TBC is pretty hazy.

    Here is the social nature of running a dungeon in TBC:

    1) Spam trade/general for an hour looking for people.
    2) Find everything but a tank or healer.
    3) Spam for a tank or healer for 40 minutes.
    4) Find tank/healer.
    5) DPS left because they didn't want to wait.
    6) Find more DPS, tank says "I have to go soon".
    7) Find everyone you need, start dungeon.
    8) Stand at the entrance of the dungeon waiting for your AFK healer.
    9) *idle chat* nobody cares and wants to get their dungeon done.
    10) you finally start the dungeon, you kill the first boss and the tank says "sorry guys I gotta go".
    11) repeat from step 1.


    The social nature of raiding can be summed up pretty quickly.

    Guild: "Are you attuned?"
    Applicant: "no."
    Guild: "gtfo".
    This, more or less. Only did EVE for a couple months but that was enough to recognize it was all about the community, whereas WoW's been working diligently from the start to cater to antisocial play.

    My favorite bit's when some DPS warrior or whomever joins the queue as a tank "just so the queue will go faster," as if we wouldn't immediately notice and boot your ass.
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  18. #38
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    Join. Shoot people. Laugh. Collect tears.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by djbriandamage View Post
    Nothing ruins my good time faster than PVP,
    Eve is not for you then.

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    Here's a perfect example of what we're talking about when we say EvE is all about human interaction,

    Two or three days ago, I was talking to one of the guys in RPSH on coms, and he was saying how it would be cool if you got discounts on ships that you bought a lot of from the different manufacturers (there are certain ships that are supposedly designed by the same npc corps, i.e. the wolf and sleipnir are made by Brutor Tribe). At the exact same time that he was talking about that, I was in the middle of discussions with the ceo of an industrial corp setting up bulk orders from him and negotiating discounts for larger orders.

    I didn't have to wait for some dev to code in a mechanic or train negotiations skills (an actual skill in game, but unrelated to this topic). I just started looking for people who could provide a service to me. I've been playing this game fur a while now, and the rabbit hole just keeps getting deeper. This is what we mean when we say that eve simply exists, and that you have to figure out what you want to make from it.
    Last edited by Hoarr; 13-06-2012 at 06:05 PM.

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