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11-06-2012, 08:19 PM #1
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
Its an Adventure, not a Drug - Rewards in Gaming
I spend a great deal of time in the outdoors. Hiking, kayaking, even some geocaching now and then. White water rafting. I enjoy exploring wild places and the unpredictable nature of the adventures often encountered in such places.
Which is perhaps what makes gaming so difficult for me.
Exploring wild areas grants all sorts of rewards. Rewarding mountain top vistas. Challenging, exciting rapids. Spotting the occasional shy wild animal. Overcoming obstacles on backwoods trails. Surviving with only the gear on your back for days in the wild. Finding your way with nothing but a compass and a map into and out of the wilds is even its own reward, after a fashion.
And the best part of all of these rewards: They are all completely - or at least mostly - unpredictable. Sure you might suspect that a beautiful vista awaits at the top of this mountain. But do you know already what, exactly, you will see? How about this rapid? Its challenging, but dos it try and recycle you or just push you under? What technique works best to conquer this particular obstacle. Even wild animals are unpredictable, in that you never know whether its a deer on the trail or an eagle higher up - or even a bear or cougar - you might encounter along your path. Or nothing at all. The most exciting part of the rewards earned for exploring wild places is the unpredictable nature of those rewards.
Gaming could offer similar rewards. And this goes double for sandbox games and MMO's. Their large worlds, detailed graphics and varied environs offer the perfect opportunity to focus on unpredictable, random, rewards spread across immense worlds, waiting for discovery. Games could offer real adventure, if they tried.
But they don't.
Games dole out rewards like new items and abilities on stead, predictable time lines readily visible to the player. Even loot is predictable in terms of both location and usually, with literally Rare exceptions, power level. Loot starts out mundane and becomes gradually more satisfying as the player puts in more time and effort, raising the quality of loot and the resultant euphoria it inspires through gradually increased exposure to this formulaic process. If it sounds like a familiar process, it should be, because games aren't the only thing in our society that utilizes this formula of gradually increasing rewards in exchange for gradually increasing levels of exposure.
Another way to get the same basic feeling: Drug Abuse.
Face it: The typical video game system for handing out rewards like loot and new skills basically focuses not on the enjoyment of the player, but on the addiction of the player to the game. Many games - and almost every MMO in existence today - uses a formula not unlike the euphoria and withdraw cycle of drugs in order to captivate millions across the world and convince to player just a little longer, just one more month's subscription price.
We have a choice in life. We can revel in unpredictable, rewarding events through genuine exploration and adventure. Or we can amuse ourselves with borderline addictive behavior in order to follow a carefully prescribed process of rewarding events laid out by game publishers - and the psychologists they no doubt employ - as a means to emptying our wallets by stimulating our brains in nearly the exact same way drug addiction does.
I wish more game developers cared about the adventure. I wish they understood what we really want in games. To explore the unknown; to receive rewards we didn't expect, didn't see coming. To not want to be hemmed in by arbitrary numbers and levels until such time as we have played long enough - and often paid money enough - to be allowed to explore anew. But alas, games must make money and to do so they must keep people playing. So we remain enslaved to level grinding and addiction-like simulation in order to enjoy a hobby.
Its almost shameful, really.
11-06-2012, 08:26 PM #2
There is no genre of games that could be called "explore-'em-ups", where the whole idea is that you're dropped into an alien world and you have to figure out how it works and how you relate to it, where the developer's goal is to find new ways to surprise, excite, delight the players.
And your post just made me realise how badly I wish there were :'(.Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
11-06-2012, 08:36 PM #3
Yeah, this is why games with leveling up (generally) are abusing the player.
They are just a ticker going up until you are allowed the next sample of content, maybe its a gun in COD/Battlefield, maybe its a new area in an MMO, or such. But its a gate because if you could have all of the content, you'd stop playing faster, and you sense of value of the product would drop and the share holders would see a reduced rate of returns on their investment, and then there would be a buyout.
Games used to do that by being hard, yunno, you'd slowly trickle new content by getting better, look at Binding of Issac and tell me that half of its genius isn't in the slow trickle. If it gave you everything from te word go the sense of wonder would dry up fast.
Really I don't have an answer, people dont want hard games anymore, people don't want to need to learn, or get stuck behind skill gates that are so hard for Q&A teams to test, so we get abusive behaviour reigning supreme.
Originally Posted by "Wikipedia
An associate once told me that he's not interested in Guild Wars because it only has 20 levels. Think about that for a minute.
http://www.rathergood.com/content/sm...all_worlds.swfI'm failing to writing a blog, specifically about playing games the wrong way
11-06-2012, 08:43 PM #4
11-06-2012, 09:03 PM #5
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
So yeah, I get that.
I guess my main issue is this: Why can we not have the Sandbox without the leveling? Saints Row did it. GTA did it. Batman AC did it, even.
Let me play a role by choosing factions to allign with, piss off, and assist or defeat. Through dialogue that will come back to help or haunt me later. Through the actions I choose to take, gear I choose to wear and wield, etc.
I want to play a role, not a spreadsheet. And I want to do it in a Sandbox. One big, open sandbox. Not a garden walled into sections and guarded by leveled bosses and border patrols.
11-06-2012, 09:04 PM #6
11-06-2012, 09:22 PM #7
Last edited by Keep; 11-06-2012 at 09:25 PM.Free speech don't mean unchallengeable speech.
11-06-2012, 09:33 PM #8
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- Mar 2012
But thanks for the reminder. I wish I could play it but I keep trying to focus on and smooth the graphics out with my eyes. and failing. miserably.
11-06-2012, 09:34 PM #9
11-06-2012, 10:04 PM #10
Either way, it sounds as if what we need in the future is a life simulator, not a hero simulator. :P
11-06-2012, 10:22 PM #11
I don't know the science behind how these games hook people, but it wouldn't surprise me if it worked the same way as video lottery terminals or slot machines...shameful indeed.
11-06-2012, 10:33 PM #12
11-06-2012, 10:35 PM #13
I think Arkham City has "leveling." You get to the right point in the mission, you get extra gear and extra power. But I also think it worked really well. So personally I distinguish between leveling for it's own sake and leveling as a way of increasing the complexity, difficulty, and flavor of the content over time. Which is great, because otherwise you either end up overwhelmed at the start and/or underwhelmed at the end.
Dragon Age has leveling for its own sake. The leveling is utterly independent of the content and largely independent of the flavor. How did you suddenly learn to throw fireballs in the middle of the fight? Sure there are magic systems and lore systems where that sort of thing would make sense, but it isn't that carefully entwined with the narrative experience in this case. You get a traditional, DnD style level-up system that (while decent as gaming versions of such things go) doesn't have enough communication with the game proper. Add to that all the little things that give you XP and loot like rummaging through barrels, picking locks, and killing everything that can be killed (all of this without an eyelash batted by anyone nearby--owners of said barrels and locks included) ... and you have a recipe for pointless Skinner-boxing. Player's make less interesting decisions and less fun decisions--like opening every box in the game to check for loot. Which, if it weren't a built-in expectation of the player built into the game, could be a really interesting and fun decision for some players.
So I'd agree with you that these sorts of things take away from the feeling of exploration. They remove the sense that the player is making choices and discovering consequences. And even in games that are supposed to be linear, they remove the sense that the character is making choices and discovering consequences because so much is happening at the meta-game level that the character loses agency as well. But I'd also add that some forms of "leveling" can work hand-in-hand with exploration and creative gameplay. The systems just need to be designed more carefully.
11-06-2012, 10:42 PM #14
Irrelevant on further examination of the rest of the thread.
- Join Date
- Feb 2012
- Stockton-on-Tees, UK
11-06-2012, 10:44 PM #15
One of the things I found interesting in the GW2 beta was that the gamut of special abilities (the shit that takes up 6 through 0 on your ability bar) were bought by special tokens, and these special tokens were granted by going to certain parts of the world and completing a challenge there. It rewarded exploring, and if you had a certain build in mind, you could focus on that and achieve it much quicker than otherwise.
Still not a true mountain hermitage scenario, but closer than otherwise!
11-06-2012, 11:16 PM #16
I hope you're not being sarcastic about the mountain hermitage. I love that sort of thing, especially in big games like The Elder Scrolls. They sort of have that going on with the Dragon shouts in Skyrim.
You know, I was overgeneralizing a lot. Even super-abstracted leveling systems can be rewarding and interesting when they ask you to do something other than kill all the things, open all the drawers. It's fine when you're rewarded for those things, too, but it's nice to be rewarded for exploring a wide range of the game's systems.
But that reminds me, I left out one of the better examples of content-based leveling. Alpha Protocol had perks. Perks were awesome. You got them for doing ... well, pretty much anything. Shot the guy? You get a perk for being a cold bastard. Made friends with him? You get a perk for being a cuddly bastard. They were usually relatively sensible insofar as what bonuses they gave you too.
11-06-2012, 11:24 PM #17
If you're gonna have a sandbox, make it a sandbox. Skyrim, if I may criticize this game even more, is a sandbox without sand in it. It's mostly just a series of fetch quests you have to do in a linear fashion. Each "faction" is just a series of fetch quests you do in order until you "own" said faction. The interesting bits - seeking out dragons and learning new overpowered voices - were completely undermined because (a) the dragons respawn based on your level and the main quest progression, not what you've actually accomplished through your travels, (b) there's no real use for the vast majority of voices in your travels, and (c) there's absolutely no indication nor hint of what is where. Occasionally if you pump the five monks they'll point you to a dragon lair, but they won't tell you what's there despite being goddamn experts in the shit.
11-06-2012, 11:29 PM #18
12-06-2012, 12:04 AM #19
- Join Date
- Jun 2011
Shame the interface sucks so bad and it never got a proper 3D update like Myst as it's the far better game. More recently, Fez does something similar once you get past the initial, early playthrough.
12-06-2012, 04:56 AM #20