Let's talk about management and building games

[Shy Otter]

I was a big fan of the Impressions city builders. Managing to build one of the big pyramids in Pharaoh felt like a massive achievement.

Me too. One of the games I played a lot back in the day was Zeus: Masters of Olympus. I think part of the appeal for me is that the whole military aspect wasn't as important / could be overlooked a bit. The thing is, I've always been much more fond of the trading and diplomacy aspects of building games, and didn't care much for wars. I'd much rather my nation be rich with trade goods and gold. Conquering my competitors through sweet manipulation rather than force, I suppose.

What other games are there that don't put much emphasis on the military/war aspect?

I used to love playing the dungeon keeper and similar games like this but we've not had any good games like this in quite a while and I'm not sure if most people would count it as such.

apricotsoup, I've been looking for Dungeon Keeper-like games too, which is why I've had my eye on A Game of Dwarves ever since RPS wrote about it way back. Been waiting for them to finally have it available for purchase. I guess I like the more kooky variations of building games. :)

[Giaddon]

Shy Otter:

Take a look at the Patrician or Port Royale games (they are basically the same: Patrician is in Northern Europe while Port Royale is in the Caribbean, pick your theme).

Settlers 7 is superlative.

Railroads! is a good competitive logistics game.

Take a look at Economies of Scale on this site. (Free online competitive business game).

[Shy Otter]

Giaddon, thank you for the suggestions!

[vurogj]

And speaking of Tilted Mill, in an alternate dimension Hinterland is the seed of what grows into a brilliant new genre that crosses action rpg with city builder. In this dimension, it's merely a wonderful crumb from an unseen banquet.

Much agreement here, picked Hinterland up in the xmas Steam sale, and was very impressed with the concept, if not quite so much with the execution.

[Timofee]

I come back to OpenTTD every now and then, though I usually start yet another game rather than trying to build a huge railroad network over one map over various sessions.

With all the Annos, Romes, Settlers and Tropicos, I wonder why there are no city building sims set in the old west...?

That's a really nice idea, I can totally see a gradual evolution of building up a small business in a frontier town and then gradually linking up via the railways. Its a long time since I played Railroad tycoon so I'm not sure if this is an invented memory or actual but I have the feeling of how you would be merrily playing in a couple of cities and then gradually panning back to take in the whole country and the opportunities that presented.

[Nalano]

That's a really nice idea, I can totally see a gradual evolution of building up a small business in a frontier town and then gradually linking up via the railways. Its a long time since I played Railroad tycoon so I'm not sure if this is an invented memory or actual but I have the feeling of how you would be merrily playing in a couple of cities and then gradually panning back to take in the whole country and the opportunities that presented.

Probably because it wouldn't be kosher to make a game where one of the major activities is indian-fighting.

[Timofee]

Probably because it wouldn't be kosher to make a game where one of the major activities is indian-fighting.

Heh

But we do live in a world where Colonization exists, so it not ground untrodden so to speak.

[Nalano]

But we do live in a world where Colonization exists, so it not ground untrodden so to speak.

Ahh, the 90s, when I could play a horrible Asian caricature named Lo Wang and throw out ridiculous one-liners and come-ons to pixelated honeys.

[Timofee]

Ahh, the 90s, when I could play a horrible Asian caricature named Lo Wang and throw out ridiculous one-liners and come-ons to pixelated honeys.

Indeed, the joys of Razy Lacism

[Heliocentric]

Settlers: 10th Anniversary Edition if you haven't played Settlers 2. I like the emphasis on creating a smoothly functioning road network to move around resources and products.

Its beautiful in both form and function, its elegant and precise with a relaxed pace and massive strategic potential, hell it even has multiplayer.

Tropico 3 is one of the most rice management games I can think of. Its got a touch of dry city builder, but its also got a good covering of tyrant and despot sauce. The game is at its best when you are overcoming obstacles, playing sandbox with infinite money is not the way.

Settlers 7 is rather like settlers 2 modernised, I'm not convinced it beats #2 but its much grander visually and seems to have a lot of facets.

[vinraith]

If the oriental stuff in 1404 bothers you, try 1701. It's excellent, and doesn't involve the "two cities" dynamic from 1404.

The Roller Coaster Tycoon (including 3) games are a lot of fun, if theme parks are your thing.

The Impressions series are classics of the genre (Caesar, Pharaoh, Zeus, Emperor), and as has been mentioned the Tilted Mill "update" of Pharaoh (Children of the Nile) is also pretty cool.

I never "got" the Settlers games, but a lot of people seem to like them.

The Movies is an interesting take on the management genre, too, and probably worth a look.

[Lacero]

The Movies is an interesting take on the management genre, too, and probably worth a look.

I really disagree. The gameplay is building your interface in a film lot, scrolling around to find the right place to drag people, and then click ragging people all over all the time. Nothing happens without you being the person to trigger it and you have to be constantly moving peple next to each other to chat or they have no chemistry and make bad movies.

As a toolkit for making silly fun movies it's quite good, as a management game it's not. Sadly.

[vinraith]

I really disagree. The gameplay is building your interface in a film lot, scrolling around to find the right place to drag people, and then click ragging people all over all the time. Nothing happens without you being the person to trigger it and you have to be constantly moving peple next to each other to chat or they have no chemistry and make bad movies.

As a toolkit for making silly fun movies it's quite good, as a management game it's not. Sadly.

Is autonomy inherently required for a game to be a good management game? That's actually a really interesting question.

[agentorange]

Dunno if anyone's mentioned it, and I haven't played it myself in quite a long time, but I remember enjoying Children of the Nile.

[Nalano]

Is autonomy inherently required for a game to be a good management game? That's actually a really interesting question.

I'd say so. Without some form of protocol, it's not so much management sim as it is micro hell. Designing a place where certain people, left to their own devices, don't meet is more interesting than forcing people to say hi to one another.

[vinraith]

I'd say so. Without some form of protocol, it's not so much management sim as it is micro hell. Designing a place where certain people, left to their own devices, don't meet is more interesting than forcing people to say hi to one another.

Isn't that basically the Sims, at least the earlier editions?

I think you're probably generally right, but I'm genuinely curious now if there are any circumstances where you could have a good management game with no autonomy.

[Nalano]

Isn't that basically the Sims, at least the earlier editions?

The Sims is just an e-dollhouse, tho. :p

[Kelron]

I'm pretty sure the original Sims would still take certain actions by themselves, like going to the toilet. If you had to instruct them to do absolutely everything yourself it would be tedious.

Whether a management game can work without autonomy depends on how you're defining it. If you look at OTTD (Transport Tycoon) as a good example. In one way it's similar to something like Sim City or Dwarf Fortress because you're setting everything up and watching it run. But is there really any autonomy? Everything is running in the patterns you designed, and won't stray from it (if you've designed it properly, at least).

[BTAxis]

I like Zeus

Zeus is to date the city builder I've had the most fun with. Although nearly a carbon copy of games like Caesar III and Emperor, the blend of humor and mythology was what kept me interested. My greatest wish for a city builder is a game with the flavor and feel of Zeus on a game engine like Anno 1404's.

[DeathPig]

Zeus and Caesar are pretty much the same. However, I prefer Zeus over Caesar, because it is just much more appealing, and frankly, Aphrodite is hawt.